Avatar {2009}

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Uncomfortable labeling Avatar a "rip off"...

You don't bitch at Forbidden Planet for being a retelling of "The Tempest" or call West Side Story a rip off of "Romeo and Juliet".

Avatar retells a classic story in an entertaining way.  Was it entertaining enough to go to the effort is still up for discussion.

I guess my threshold for how different something has to be before I call it a rip off is lower, there are just too many point for point similarities on many levels for me.  There's just no real twist to the story here.     

If you were to change the CGI model to any native tribe pushed around by Europeans would you still have trouble calling it a rip off?

Also I've read scifi books written in the 70's or maybe earlier about beings that could connect like that, and a conscious planet-wide forest that defeats an invading corporation, so it seems more of a rip off to me.

I would like to see it again in 3D on the bigger Imax screen, so it was entertaining enough I think.  I only had a few "WTF" moments while watching it, most of the questions about it are if you try to think about it afterward. 

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

If you were to change the CGI model to any native tribe pushed around by Europeans would you still have trouble calling it a rip off?

If it kept to the original story and did a good job, I'd call it a "remake".

Ironically, the IMDB poll today is about the remakes in the IMDB Top 250...movies like Wizard of Oz, His Girl Friday, The Maltese Falcon, Ben-Hur, Twelve Monkeys....

Funny thing is, I think the remakes are better known than the originals.  It can be done.  Not recently but....

[MartyS (Gromit)]

If you were to change the CGI model to any native tribe pushed around by Europeans would you still have trouble calling it a rip off?

If it kept to the original story and did a good job, I'd call it a "remake".

OK, that's fair.

All the pre-release buzz kept going on about how "original" it was, without that it probably wouldn't be an issue.  Don't know if that came from Cameron or the PR people.

[Russell]

I know a lot of people have been complaining about people complaining that Avatar is nothing more than a fancy re-make of dances with wolves. That's not true! It's a very fancy re-make with beautiful graphics. Seriously though, where people say that Star Wars stole from Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress", Avatar stole from "Dances with Wolves". However... at least Star Wars added enough solid plot elements to make anyone completely forget about that. So basically, I think Star Wars ripped off The hidden fortress really well, and Avatar ripped off Dances with wolves in a very piss-poor manner.

[MSTJedi]

I can't watch that review because of all your friggin' gif sigs and avatar! My poor wittle computer can't handle all that movement apparently.

Then go to his site.

Oh, I did. Just sayin' it's a little annoying that I had to bother to do so.

Dumb ancient computer.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

I know a lot of people have been complaining about people complaining that Avatar is nothing more than a fancy re-make of dances with wolves. That's not true! It's a very fancy re-make with beautiful graphics. Seriously though, where people say that Star Wars stole from Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress", Avatar stole from "Dances with Wolves". However... at least Star Wars added enough solid plot elements to make anyone completely forget about that. So basically, I think Star Wars ripped off The hidden fortress really well, and Avatar ripped off Dances with wolves in a very piss-poor manner.

And Star Wars ripped off the story of The Hidden Fortress and it's style from old movie serials...

Speaking of which, I can show you a scene from an old serial that Spielberg and Lucas reproduced exactly in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (the running from the water in the mineshaft and it all pouring out of the side of the mountain - a clip of the original was used in the movie, J-Men Forever at around 1:35.).  But I digress....

Cameron has his own style here, I think.

[ScottotD]

I know a lot of people have been complaining about people complaining that Avatar is nothing more than a fancy re-make of dances with wolves. That's not true! It's a very fancy re-make with beautiful graphics. Seriously though, where people say that Star Wars stole from Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress", Avatar stole from "Dances with Wolves". However... at least Star Wars added enough solid plot elements to make anyone completely forget about that. So basically, I think Star Wars ripped off The hidden fortress really well, and Avatar ripped off Dances with wolves in a very piss-poor manner.

I really didn't get this, I gather it must be because I think Dances with Wolves in one of the stupider movies I've ever watched half of.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

http://blip.tv/play/hIVVgbiFVgI

Spoony puts things so clearly and concisely. I know I am going to get flamed for this but I totally agree with him.

BTW....did you notice his T-shirt?

[Lovye]

^^  I DID notice that shirt!!   Thank you for posting Bum's Review of this!!!  I was hoping!  "Lame Story + Pretty Images = Pretty Lame".  XD

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Another thought.....

Spoiler

How wonderful that these people who are being visited by people who are in one body but visiting them through another have a way of transferring that person from their real body into the fake body....even though this culture had never heard of avatars before they came to the planet.

So what did the Na'vi use that for before that point?

Did they switch their consciences from body to body a lot?

Are we talking this?

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Another thought.....

Spoiler

How wonderful that these people who are being visited by people who are in one body but visiting them through another have a way of transferring that person from their real body into the fake body....even though this culture had never heard of avatars before they came to the planet.

So what did the Na'vi use that for before that point?

Did they switch their consciences from body to body a lot?

Are we talking this?

Hmmm, yea, they did seem to jump into that idea of transferring consciousness from one body to another really easily.  Add that to the long list of unexplained stuff.......

I think it's best not to think about this movie too much, just enjoy the pretty pictures.   

Maybe it will be explained in the sequel, some of the interviews with Cameron have said if this one does well there probably will be a sequel. 

Let's see, I think they said it was a 5 year trip to the planet, so 10 years round trip for the big orbital platforms to arrive and bomb the planet from orbit, they'll need some serious arrows to defend themselves from that. 

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Let's see, I think they said it was a 5 year trip to the planet, so 10 years round trip for the big orbital platforms to arrive and bomb the planet from orbit, they'll need some serious arrows to defend themselves from that. 

And it only took them 10 years to make this one...   

[gojikranz]

well i saw it and liked it nuff about that, but did anyone notice the incredible similarities between the imagery and roger deans artwork (yes cover art is his best known stuff)?  i recalled reading in a book that he was working on a movie and when i saw those floating islands i was like oh man this must be the movie, but his name didnt appear in the credits so i searched online and apparently he has no involvement and is considering sueing.  I think he certainly has a case thos stone arches around the tree are also highly reminiscent of the cover for keys to ascenscion.  and the animals are similar to many animal drawings i have seen of his.  doesnt dampen my enjoyment of the film but i hope he can get some credit and cash for it.

[Vent]

I highly doubt it will turn out enough of a profit to merit a sequel.

[Trumpysgirl]

So, after hearing my friends go on and ON about how amazing this movie was, I finally went to see it tonight.

And I agree, the visual affects are absolutely stunning and will be guaranteed a visual effects win at the Oscars. The creature and set designs were also absolutely gorgeous and I expected nothing less than from a Cameron film.

That being said, I still maintain that James Cameron is that most rare of directors in the sense that he is a great visionary but not a great storyteller. The plot just dragged on forever and was perhaps one of the most predictable and obvious stories that I've ever seen (Nature good. Military BAD). And it gave me no real connection to any of the characters, with the only exception being thanks to Zoe Saldana's strong acting ability.

On the other end of that particular spectrum is Sam Worthington, who is quite possibly one of the most bland actors that I have ever seen. And yes, while I'm aware that the Na'vi were created using motion capture, how is it freakin' possible that his CGI character could express more genuine emotion than his live counterpart? How? Hats off to Stan Winston for that one.

Technically innovative, for sure, but not the greatest movie ever made. Although I'm sure some people will be shouting it from the rooftops for a while.