Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi (2017) (spoilers free to be seen)

[Edward J Grug III]

But one thing really bothered me, because at first it was the thing I liked the most about the film. I loved that Yoda came back and burned all the books, because fuck it, you don't need them. He told Luke to learn from your elders, but don't become a slave to dogma. That was an awesome message. But no, one of the last shots reveals that the books were saved, and then you realize Yoda knew Rey had taken them and he was just being a coy little fucker. Stupid, is what that is. You ruined the best scene in your movie.  (That is what that shot was of at the end, right?  The projection I saw was super shitty and dark, so it was hard to tell)

Luke doesn't know Rey has the books, so it has no impact on the lesson Yoda was teaching him.

But it has an impact on the lesson he teaches the audience. We can't be sure he would have torched the tree with the books inside. Probably not.

The whole movie reinforces the message of letting go to the audience the whole way through.

In fact, her keeping the books may lead to her suffering the consequences of not learning the lesson.

[Edward J Grug III]

All the reviewers keep saying it is 'new', 'fresh', and 'different' and thus is one of the best Star Wars movies.  In other words, slavishly repeating prior story points is bad.  But slavishly reversing prior story points is good.

BOTH are bad story telling.  BOTH use what has come before as their template.  NEITHER is 'new' or 'fresh'.  Mindless repetition and mindless reversal are NOT 'different'.

Neither are story telling. The story happened around the inversion of the Star Wars tropes.

[Cyrusso]

I was scared that Rey was going to turn to the dark side in this film, and I am VERY grateful that did not happen. That seemed to be everybody's expectation, and by everybody I mean half the damn internet. At the end, I still cared about the characters, and I'm really wondering how the Resistance can possibly win in the end. I saw Red Letter Media's review of the movie today and ultimately they just called the film "messy". I can see how they might say that, but in the end I still enjoyed it and I'd go see it again.

[Edward J Grug III]

I was scared that Rey was going to turn to the dark side in this film, and I am VERY grateful that did not happen. That seemed to be everybody's expectation, and by everybody I mean half the damn internet. At the end, I still cared about the characters, and I'm really wondering how the Resistance can possibly win in the end. I saw Red Letter Media's review of the movie today and ultimately they just called the film "messy". I can see how they might say that, but in the end I still enjoyed it and I'd go see it again.

She still might. I've seen the suggestion that both she and Kylo might turn and invert. Who knows?

[Variety of Cells]

But one thing really bothered me, because at first it was the thing I liked the most about the film. I loved that Yoda came back and burned all the books, because fuck it, you don't need them. He told Luke to learn from your elders, but don't become a slave to dogma. That was an awesome message. But no, one of the last shots reveals that the books were saved, and then you realize Yoda knew Rey had taken them and he was just being a coy little fucker. Stupid, is what that is. You ruined the best scene in your movie.  (That is what that shot was of at the end, right?  The projection I saw was super shitty and dark, so it was hard to tell)

Luke doesn't know Rey has the books, so it has no impact on the lesson Yoda was teaching him.

But it has an impact on the lesson he teaches the audience. We can't be sure he would have torched the tree with the books inside. Probably not.

The whole movie reinforces the message of letting go to the audience the whole way through.

In fact, her keeping the books may lead to her suffering the consequences of not learning the lesson.

That would be great if that were true.  The reason I think it's not is Yoda's phrasing when talking to Luke.  He says something close to 'Rey has all the knowledge with her that she needs', which Luke takes one way, but the audience is meant to take a different way once they see the books again at the end of the film.  It implies that the books are in fact important, and cheapens the lesson he teaches Luke, in my opinion. 

[Edward J Grug III]

I don't see how? Luke needed to learn one lesson, and I guess Rey needed to learn another. Seems reasonable.

But there's still the possibility that Rey will turn to the dark side, so he might mean she has the knowledge she needs (for the path she is on).

[Kete]

I think it's beyond either the light or the dark side. As Luke was teaching, both are required, and the Force is found in the balance. I think that Rey's journey will take her to the gray side of the force.

[Edward J Grug III]

https://www.change.org/p/reshoot-the-last-jedi-to-replace-luke-skywalker-with-a-dog-that-solves-mysteries

[Cyrusso]

Are we sure we're not confusing something with Detective Pikachu?

[Pak-Man]

I always confuse EVERYTHING with Detective Pikachu.

[blspro]

All the reviewers keep saying it is 'new', 'fresh', and 'different' and thus is one of the best Star Wars movies.  In other words, slavishly repeating prior story points is bad.  But slavishly reversing prior story points is good.

BOTH are bad story telling.  BOTH use what has come before as their template.  NEITHER is 'new' or 'fresh'.  Mindless repetition and mindless reversal are NOT 'different'.

Neither are story telling. The story happened around the inversion of the Star Wars tropes.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me that TLJ simply engaged in the mindless reversal of EVERYTHING in Empire (MORE slavishly than TFA mindlessly repeated everything from New Hope) - or if you are disagreeing with me and saying there WAS a story (and good storytelling) which was somehow apart from those reversals.  If the latter, what "story" are you claiming existed that didn't involve a direct reversal of Empire's story beats?

[Pak-Man]

So I know my taste in movies is pretty wonky. I've stood and defended many questionable movies on this Forum, full-knowing that while I enjoyed it, there are legitimately good reasons that other people don't. I'm a prequel apologist, but I've always understood that there was something to apologize for.

This one baffles me. Episode 8 delivered nothing but scene after scene of "That was AWESOME!" While I watched it, the ONLY sticking point I could see people having was with the kinda-goofy Alien Casino (Which I LOVED as a counterpoint to the Cantina scene. Especially after being promised the worst people in the galaxy.) The bombing scene is probably the best-choreographed space battle in a long history of great space battles. The Falcon's flight through the inside of the salt planet brought a legit tear to my eye in its beauty. I loved the central theme: That no matter how many times you fail or how far things have fallen, there's always hope. This was a Star Wars movie with something to say and it said it well. Even Luke's death isn't quite a DEATH. He's one with the Force. He didn't do anything in this movie that he couldn't do as a force ghost.

Instead people almost seem to be going out of their way to dig into the story structure and writing techniques and try to Venn-diagram it into the template of the original movies just to find ways that it didn't do things as well. This wasn't a movie where I'm having to make excuses to justify this or that. It's all self-evident to me. I know everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I know SOMEONE's gotta hate everything, but the level of hate I'm seeing from some people just seems unjustified to me.

[Variety of Cells]

The bombing scene is probably the best-choreographed space battle in a long history of great space battles.

You mean other than the fact that space bombs don't make any sense, right?

[Pak-Man]

Details, details!

[Darth Geek]

The bombing scene is probably the best-choreographed space battle in a long history of great space battles.

You mean other than the fact that space bombs don't make any sense, right?

The Dreadnaught has enough mass to attract the small bombs. Plus, the bomber ship (like all the Star Wars ships) has artificial gravity. So it makes sense they could direct that to eject the bombs.