Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread

[Kete]

My 3 year old son took his sister's purse, put  his lightsaber in it, and said, "I'm the girl from Star Wars"!

[Henry88]

Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.

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[MSTJedi]

Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.

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Maybe as a father, I can understand Han's motivations in trying to get through to his estranged son instead of feeling like he "went out like a punk". While it was shocking, I didn't thing it was a bad idea and it worked for the situation. I've always loved the character, but I also know him as a husband and father who went to amazing lengths for his family in the now-defunct EU as well as the hard-assed smuggler with a heart of gold from the OT.

[Darth Geek]

Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

I'm still pissed that JJ killed off Han. He did it to lend emotional weight to a movie that he was making and he didn't earn that. We care about Han because of 30 years of storytelling; you want emotional weight, kill off one of your own fucking characters, don't appropriate someone else's. It's cheap and shitty. He did the same thing in Star Trek when he blew up Vulcan.

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.

like

Maybe as a father, I can understand Han's motivations in trying to get through to his estranged son instead of feeling like he "went out like a punk". While it was shocking, I didn't thing it was a bad idea and it worked for the situation. I've always loved the character, but I also know him as a husband and father who went to amazing lengths for his family in the now-defunct EU as well as the hard-assed smuggler with a heart of gold from the OT.

Yeah, I didn't see it as "he went out like a punk" at all. I get that he would have conflicted emotions over his son. He just wouldn't have been stupid enough to get that close if he hadn't been convinced to bring Ren back by Leia.

[Relaxing Dragon]

Having watched the movie twice now, I'm perfectly okay with what JJ did with Han. I thought he delivered a lot of emotion with the character, both happy stuff like when he finally got back onto the Falcon (that look he makes when he's back in the cockpit is perfect), and a lot of good work with Leia with regards to more heavy, more heartfelt stuff. It also helps that his son is a really well realized character (the most interesting of the new batch), so their final moment together actually had some more stuff to it beyond "this is the scene where Han Solo dies". Han really, really wanted his son back, and he cared more about that than he did himself (and Han getting to a point where he cares about others more than himself ties right back to his original character arc). People saying stuff like "he let his guard down" are making him out to be someone who saw the situation as an him cautiously approaching an enemy, rather than a father trying desperately to bring his son home. That's not exactly a moment where you stick to shouting range and keep a blaster at the ready.

In a movie that makes a point of paying reverence to what came before but also getting the ball rolling for a new trilogy, that moment was both the toughest and most necessary bridge to cross. The original trilogy has come to pass, and the new one is making its mark. In a movie that's largely about playing things safe, doing something so big and permanent is a very good thing. However sad the actual act is.

[Darth Geek]

That's not exactly a moment where you stick to shouting range and keep a blaster at the ready.

That's exactly what Han would have done. Because Han is smart! But he was convinced by Leia. And we the audience know that there is some good in him left, and I don't doubt that Leia may have felt it via The Force.

I think the other part of why they killed of Han is that Harrison Ford is so old (and really looking run down even given his age) that it makes sense not to want to rely on him still being alive for filming the next one.
While I have issues with how that particular scene ended, this is a great last hurrah for Solo. I was thrilled that he was in it so much, I expected that it would be just a cameo. And if Harrison Ford were to pass away, it's a great performance to end on.

[Imrahil]

The whole recovering the Falcon thing was shit too. So not only does he kill Han, he makes his later years really unhappy in the back story. With all of them, he totally undoes any success they had at the end of Jedi. Just shits on them. All so he can make additions - - unnecessary ones - - to an already finished story.

[PsychoGoatee]

Gotta say, this is a great movie, lots of fun, and I'm excited for the future of Star Wars! Which is nice.

By the way, there was an inflatable Jabba the hutt in the lobby of my local theater! Quite impressive.

[Quantum Vagina]

So, I saw it. It was pretty good. I do have a lot of gripes with it and I think some people have nostalgia goggles on and wanted it to succeed, but I was hesitant, and I'm glad I was, because I think that it let me look at the movie from a more critical perspective instead of like OMG HAN'S BACK YASSS.

The Good
1. Rey was a FANTASTIC character. She was compelling, she was funny, she was strong, she was interesting. Daisy Ridley made that character OUTSTANDING, even with the iffy dialogue half the time.

2. Harrison Ford was excellent. Truly fantastic. It was fun watching him play the character again, and he really worked hard on making that final performance a great one.

3. I am really happy to see that there's actual diversity among the cast! The prequels and the original trilogy were good, but they were overwhelmingly white, with a few token black men thrown in here and there for inclusion. JJ and company have FINALLY shown that there can be some diversity throughout the galaxy, which opens the doors to include more people of color and women in leading roles, at least in Franchise.

4. Despite Soguru's insistence that it wasn't derivative, it very much was. I felt like I should've made a TFA Bingo card and taken it into the theater with me. This wasn't a bad thing. Indeed, it was nice to essentially watch a best of reel of A New Hope. Some of JJ's story was iffy and the writing wasn't the best, but the parts that were copy pasted from A New Hope were very nice and fairly well done.

The Bad

1. Kylo Ren is an awful villain and Adam Driver's acting was at least as bad as Hayden Christensen's. He was a whiny, annoying brat. His story is LITERALLY "My grandpa ran an entire galaxy, I wanna be like him". He REALLY seemed like he's going through an angsty emo phase. All his ridiculous tantrums, his daddy issues that rival mine. I feel like his room would be plastered in Linkin Park posters.

2. I found Finn to be pretty mediocre and irritating. He felt like he was one note and flat to me, and didn't really seem to be there for anything except to be there for Rey. Which is fine, but I think he could've been more fleshed out.

3. Rey's discovery of her Force powers was REALLY stupid and contrived. Seriously, it was ridiculous. I've been trying to justify her reasons for thinking she might be sensitive and capable of it, and the CLOSEST I can come up with is that she realized that if Ren was scared of her, that meant that she must have something inside of her, and what scares the Dark Side more than sensing another Force user? Still, pretty stupid, and irritating that she could do what she did without ANY training. Fuck, even Luke was taught how to use the Force SOMEWHAT. Anakin had to be trained to do any of that stuff, too. It may imply that she's stronger than either of them, but I think it was stupid as hell.

4. Snoke is a stupid name.

5. Ren should've mopped the floor with Rey and Finn. I don't care that he got hit with a bowcaster. There's no reason he shouldn't slaughter both of them other than plot armor. Pain can either be ignored(The Jedi way) or channeled into anger and hate(The Sith Way). And we know he hated Rey and Finn. Until she went all zen at the end, he would've crushed the untrained Force sensitive with his training.

6. The lightsaber battle was lame. Seriously. Easily the worst in the series. In fact, the action scenes outside of the Falcon were pretty awful. They were cluttered and confused, with constant switching of shots that made it so I couldn't keep track of anything.

7. The dialogue was SO BAD. It was really forcedand awkward so much of the time, I really felt like I was sitting through a bad high school play.

So, yeah. It was pretty good, but there were definite problems with it. I'd actually say it's better than A New Hope, which to some may be high praise, but I think that it's the third worst in the series, behind Phantom Menace at number two and Attack of the Clones at number 1. It's a mid tier Star Wars movie, which is definitely better than I thought it'd be.

[soguru]

4. Despite Soguru's insistence that it wasn't derivative, it very much was.

I think I got an answer for anybody who plays the "Awww, it's too derivative" card. That sort of begs the question... how derivative was A new hope of Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"? I dare say the same as a lot of other people- There are a lot of similarities, inescapable ones, but there are plenty of things that are different enough that it can stand on its own.

One time I admitted it was derivative.

As for the Re-hashing though? Anything re-hashed at least feels like it was EARNED. The story was good, the new characters were amazing, and in a way, the stuff that felt like it was re-used was done so to much better dramatic effect.

Lawful, I never said it wasn't derivative. To the contrary, I admitted it, TWICE!

He also went out like a punk, to a long-haired emo kid.  It's fucking atrocious.

What is this with labeling Ren as emo all of a sudden? i don't think you're giving him enough credit, not you or Lawful, there are some subtleties that make him a far more interesting character than Vader in his prime. Kylo's sense of right and wrong is so fucked over that he truly believes evil is good and vice versa. I don't think Vader was ever like that, he saw the Empire as the means to order, but he never saw himself as a hero or some kind of champion. Vader, in killing his own flesh and blood would destroy himself, but Ren had to test himself, to see if he could pass the test and overcome the natural affection family has for one another. In that respect, Ren is anything but Emo, Ren is in essence seeking not just the dark side, but in addition a certain level of apathy towards certain specific aspects of himself and the universe. In this way, he's a damn scary villain because if he can murder his own father in such circumstances, what else is he capable of?

Just one thing... I still think it's important to have spoilers even in this thread, mostly because if somebody clicks the "show posts" links under your username on your profile, it will show ALL your posts, and that has the potential for seeing spoilers.

And if you click "Spoiler" tag they show up there too. So too bad.

Thank you, glad you could be so understanding.

[Rainbow Dash]

5. Ren should've mopped the floor with Rey and Finn. I don't care that he got hit with a bowcaster. There's no reason he shouldn't slaughter both of them other than plot armor. Pain can either be ignored(The Jedi way) or channeled into anger and hate(The Sith Way). And we know he hated Rey and Finn. Until she went all zen at the end, he would've crushed the untrained Force sensitive with his training.

6. The lightsaber battle was lame. Seriously. Easily the worst in the series. In fact, the action scenes outside of the Falcon were pretty awful. They were cluttered and confused, with constant switching of shots that made it so I couldn't keep track of anything.

The fight made sense.  Both Finn and Rey, while not trained with Lightsabers, were both trained in melee combat.  Ren was injured badly by Chewie.  He fought Finn and dispatched him fairly quickly, but he expended more energy while injured.  With his stamina in question and injuries, I don't see it's so far fetched that Rey would get the better of him.  Not to mention Ren's mental state was probably out of whack, having just killed his Father.

As for the fight, I liked it.  it had weight to it.  It felt like a sword fight again, and not the over choreographed dance routines of the Prequels where they were more concerned with hitting their marks, feet away from their target, than doing any damage to their opponent. 

[Darth Geek]

As for the fight, I liked it.  it had weight to it.  It felt like a sword fight again, and not the over choreographed dance routines of the Prequels where they were more concerned with hitting their marks, feet away from their target, than doing any damage to their opponent.

Agreed. They felt brutal. It reminded me more of the end fight between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi, when Luke starts to just smash at Vader.

[soguru]

Agreed. They felt brutal. It reminded me more of the end fight between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi, when Luke starts to just smash at Vader.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whole duel was the best one in all of Star Wars. Yes, even better between the final duel between Luke and Vader. I felt every hit, every strike changed the nature of the situation and the flow of the combat and made it that much more intense and... I really felt scared for Rey. In this movie, I grew to love her as a character. She is truly amazing.

On a side note, I'd like to say that I'm very sad that... a few certain people here didn't enjoy the movie as much as I hoped they would. Some people here have pretty much always been voices that have dissented from my own on every occasion, and I hoped, yearned, wanted so badly for them to feel the same emotions and have the same reaction I did to the movie... and it breaks my heart because I want so badly for a lot of people here to see things through my eyes.

[Quantum Vagina]

Agreed. They felt brutal. It reminded me more of the end fight between Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi, when Luke starts to just smash at Vader.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whole duel was the best one in all of Star Wars. Yes, even better between the final duel between Luke and Vader. I felt every hit, every strike changed the nature of the situation and the flow of the combat and made it that much more intense and... I really felt scared for Rey. In this movie, I grew to love her as a character. She is truly amazing.

On a side note, I'd like to say that I'm very sad that... a few certain people here didn't enjoy the movie as much as I hoped they would. Some people here have pretty much always been voices that have dissented from my own on every occasion, and I hoped, yearned, wanted so badly for them to feel the same emotions and have the same reaction I did to the movie... and it breaks my heart because I want so badly for a lot of people here to see things through my eyes.

Can't make people feel things, bruh. It was good, just not super godlike. I get that you think its amazing, but don't let my and others various levels of entertainment affect you, or you'll never be satisfied. I think the only real thing JJ did was construct his first good character ever. And she made the movie for me.

[PsychoGoatee]

I'm glad that I love the movie, since there have certainly been a couple SW flicks that left me pretty disappointed. But it's all personal taste, I'm sure somebody who doesn't like this movie likes a movie that you don't like, and... the balance of the force... it lives on...