The Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)

[k1]

Lucas I'm pretty sure it's the 2nd spoiler.

[Soguru]

Meh, I don't let little things spoil the overall enjoyment of a movie. Or at least I try not to. Do you know how hard it's been to avoid articles of potential spoilers for Age of Ultron and The Force Awakens? It hasn't been easy!!!

[Darth Geek]

I love how Thor looks like he's about to hit Captain America in the head.

The poster has too many characters, which is exactly my concern with this movie. The juggling act they pulled off in the first Avengers was a miracle. I am afraid they won't be able to do it as well again, and with even more people.

[ScottotD]

Anthony Mackie, Hayley Atwell and Idris Elba are in the cast! Yaaaaay!

[Sideswipe]

I love how Thor looks like he's about to hit Captain America in the head.

The juggling act they pulled off in the first Avengers was a miracle. I am afraid they won't be able to do it as well again, and with even more people.

And they still had pointless characters.  Hawkeye and Black Widow were completely irrelevant to the story, they could have been taken out and almost nothing in the narrative would change.

[ScottotD]

I love how Thor looks like he's about to hit Captain America in the head.

The juggling act they pulled off in the first Avengers was a miracle. I am afraid they won't be able to do it as well again, and with even more people.

And they still had pointless characters.  Hawkeye and Black Widow were completely irrelevant to the story, they could have been taken out and almost nothing in the narrative would change.

You must have watched a different Avengers to the one I have, did yours have Uma Thurman?

[anais.butterfly]

I love how Thor looks like he's about to hit Captain America in the head.

The juggling act they pulled off in the first Avengers was a miracle. I am afraid they won't be able to do it as well again, and with even more people.

And they still had pointless characters.  Hawkeye and Black Widow were completely irrelevant to the story, they could have been taken out and almost nothing in the narrative would change.

I agree! I mean, I like Hawkeye (because Jeremy Remmer is hot) and Black Widow (because a chick has to be in it or else SEXISM!) but there was no real reason for them to be there. The amount of screen time Black Widow got annoyed the hell out of me.

[ScottotD]

Disagree, both of them did a lot.  Widow found out Loki's plan

[RoninFox]

Disagree, both of them did a lot.  Widow found out Loki's plan

Love the hell out of that scene.  Manipulating the god of lies, that's hardcore.

[anais.butterfly]

Disagree, both of them did a lot.  Widow found out Loki's plan

But someone else could have done it, is the point. As Darth has pointed out, the movie was (mostly) well balanced, but, what I am arguing, is that without Hawkeye and Widow there would have been more scenes for Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor.

That being said, if I concede that the first Avengers was not convoluted with protagonists, it makes sense that the more characters added, the higher the probability of Age of Ultron being convoluted and yours and my favorite characters not getting enough screen time. In fact, I would be willing to bet that Black Widow gets the least amount of screen time due to the fact that she was pregnant during filming (which I would be fine with).

[Sideswipe]

That, is my point exactly, Anais.  The Black Widow/Loki scene could have been rewritten for anyone.  Hawkeye on the other hand could have had his role replaced by nameless thugs and everything would have been the same. 

[Darth Geek]

Disagree, both of them did a lot.  Widow found out Loki's plan

Love the hell out of that scene.  Manipulating the god of lies, that's hardcore.

Hell yeah! And it says a lot that one of the better scenes in an action movie is two characters in a room talking.

I really liked Black Widow (much more than in Iron Man 2) and Hawkeye in Avengers. And I was a big doubter beforehand. I would totally watch a Black Widow or Hawkeye movie now.

[Soguru]

When it comes to Black Widow, I hope she's got a strategy for dealing with the Ultron-bots that could easily kill a normal human with a flick of the wrist. I mean let's face it, Ultron is a much bigger threat than Loki and the Chitauri army. (That sounds like a kick ass name for a band).

[LucasM]

Disagree, both of them did a lot.  Widow found out Loki's plan

But someone else could have done it, is the point. As Darth has pointed out, the movie was (mostly) well balanced, but, what I am arguing, is that without Hawkeye and Widow there would have been more scenes for Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor.

First, these are characters that get their own independent films (well, except after the less than spectacular Bana Hulk film, something that can't be blamed on Marvel Studios, as it was Universal's take on the character before licensing expired, iirc).  So why shouldn't other legitimate Avengers get screen time?  [Hawkeye joined the team in Avengers #16, May 1965, exactly two years after the first issue - that's pretty legit.]

Hawkeye alone, being a high-ranking SHIELD agent, could know the workings of the HeliCarrier enough, and have the ability to aim perfectly enough, to create and sink the arrow-with-computer-virus shot from off of the control deck.  And no-one else could have gotten near enough, certainly not on the deck to do it as a flunky.

And Hawkeye, as the character is defined in the Marvel film universe, is a master of 'pattern recognition' from a distance.  Who else would have stood on the roof and guided each Avenger to the appropriate actions (and taken out a few on his own)?  Cap?  Then his "protect the common man" behavior would have been lost.  Iron Man?  Then no point in having the suit.  Hulk? Thor? Seriously?  Hawkeye was the only person who could do that.

That, is my point exactly, Anais.  The Black Widow/Loki scene could have been rewritten for anyone.

But then Joss wouldn't have gotten to use his "mewling quim" line (which amused him no end).

Loki would not have spilled his plan to a male.  The idea is that it took a female - which, apparently, Loki holds in contempt to begin with - to 'undo' his plan to some degree was important.  If we hadn't seen someone female at the beginning of the film already show they can outsmart men who think that women are inferior, then the entire segment would not have worked.  So, Widow had to have 'alone time' on screen early on to demonstrate she could manipulate and extract information.

So unless people wanted an 'unnamed female' to get Black Widow's screen time, then there was no other way to accomplish the learning of the 'staff/Banner' proto-team-splitting plot.


In addition: for those not Marvel hero junkies (like I presume most of us are to spend time discussing all this), who else would be there to give the 'common human' perspective on all that transpired?  If the common human audience member isn't engaged, the film falls flat, as it is just a bunch of 'big strong people' beating each other up.


For me, I've seen Joss juggle huge numbers of cast (Buffy/Angel especially their final seasons, then his Astonishing X-Men run).  I have little doubt he can do justice to Avengers 2, even with - apparently - three new Avenger members [yes, I know about the post-initial-credit bit in Cap:Winter Soldier] plus multiple Ultrons.

With Iron Man, Cap and Thor continuing to get their own films, I'm happy to see screen time devoted to other characters.

SPOILER not for content, but for size.  This is, from what I understand, the current schedule for future Marvel Studios films, minus - apparently - an Iron Man 4 which Downey apparently signed on for.  Avengers: Age of Ultron  -  May 1, 2015  [written/directed by Joss Whedon]

Ant-Man  -  July 17, 2015

Phase Three

Captain America: Civil War  -  May 6, 2016

Doctor Strange  -  November 4, 2016

Guardians of the Galaxy 2  -  May 5, 2017

Thor: Ragnarok  -  November 3, 2017

Avengers: Infinity War Part 1  -  May 4, 2018

Black Panther  -  July 6, 2018

Captain Marvel  -  November 2, 2018

Avengers: Infinity War Part 2  -  May 3, 2019

Inhumans  -  July 12, 2019

[[Figures: I swore I wouldn't weigh in on this after the events of the last couple weeks wearing me out 'in real life'.  So much for that idea.]]

[ScottotD]

I'm sad I can't like this ^