The Passion...

[Tarantulas]

To everyone, I say, "Congratulations! You're both right! Now sit down, relax, enjoy your view of the universe, and don't let it irk you that others might have other views, and maybe listen to what the other side has to say.  Lots of good information on both ends.

That's probably the most reasonable thing I've read thus far. If only everyone was as smart as you guys. Case e in point - one of the recent episodes of Penn and Teller was about Exorcism. Pretty frightening, and I don't mean the concept of "being possessed by demons."

Besides it not being possible since there is no such things as demons.

[RandyMistie]

Tarantulas, it's good to see you back around the forums, my friend.  Oh, and I ditto all of your posts on this subject.

For the record, the old axiom, "Man created God and then God created Man" is pretty much the guiding principle of my belief system.  Only, I usually replace the word "Man" with "Humans" so as to not be sexist in the hopes that girls like me.

[Priest4hire]

No... the reaction you get when you hug a parent is easy to explain.

As the care giver for yourself, you have formed a "bond" with that person that really doesn't amount to anything more than your brain releasing chemicals to illicit a response that "this is a care giver, show them affection".  This thing called love (outside of Queen lyrics) are chemicals your brain uses to create bonds between members of the same grouping.  Millions of years of evolution has taught you that it's better to stay in a group for both survival and mating purposes.  "Love" kept primitive man in pair bonds to increase the odds of rearing young to a mature age.

Wonder why the divorce rate is up?  The chemicals wear off after a while... and we aren't supposed to live this long, so we have sort of out "evolved" this evolutionary advancement.

I'd point you to some stuff about Pavlov's dog, but you'd just say that it further cheapens the "human spiritual experience" and that we aren't animals.

Huh? By chemical do mean a hormone or a neurotransmitter? Neurotransmitters facilitate the communication between neurons. Hormones can alter the action potential of neurons making them easier to harder to fire. It's important to remember though that hormones can't create behaviour. Rather, they increase or decrease the ease with which the behavior manifests. One problem you have is you've assumed a causal relationship which is a no-no in science. Simply because a certain chemical, hormone, or other protein is present at elevated levels when a person is in love doesn't mean the chemical causes that love. It may well be the other way around. The relationship at the very least is likely to be far more complex than some chemical causing the feeling and then wearing off. Actually, different chemicals are involved at different stages of attachment.

All of this leaves out the question of the development and strengthening of neural connections. Which is what learning is. Nor does this even touch the cognitive aspects which are quite complex. Certainly way past classical conditioning. I'm not sure what you think Pavlov's Dog is supposed to prove but it's probably one of the most overused and misunderstood experiments in behaviorism. Yes, you can invoke a conditioned response to a simple stimuli. And? We bleed if we're cut just like animals as well.

What this really avoids though is the most interesting question. A question known as the hard problem of consciousness. Why do we have qualia of experience at all? Consider the philosophical zombie. It has all the outward appearance of a person and exhibits all the behaviors but has no qualia of experience. Just like us it is programmed by millions of years of evolution to exhibit behaviors that lead to survival. Just like us it has intelligence and language and even reacts just like we do to stimuli such as pain. Only it has no inner experience. No real self awareness. What difference would there be that would require, in us, a qualia of experience? Why are we conscious? After all, once you start explaining away every feeling as chemicals and evolution it becomes painfully obvious that you could explain all this as manipulations of a cognitive system without any inner life at all. Even decision making does not require it.

[ScottotD]

If this thread isn't back on topic by page 35 I'm locking it.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

so anyone else like easter candy?  i sure do

[Pak-Man]

OK. Back on topic. So does anyone else think the father of the Dude in the Passion created this universe and its scientific laws? I do! :^)

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

the dude in the movie or the dude that the other dude was portraying?

[Tyrant]

OK. Back on topic. So does anyone else think the father of the Dude in the Passion created this universe and its scientific laws? I do! :^)

Ssssshhhhh!!! Are you trying to get into trouble? Don't make me get the rolling pin!!!!!!   

[Quicksilver]

OK. Back on topic. So does anyone else think the father of the Dude in the Passion created this universe and its scientific laws? I do! :^)

Ssssshhhhh!!! Are you trying to get into trouble? Don't make me get the rolling pin!!!!!!   

word he thought he was some god or something

[Deckard25]

Well back on Topic here. Whether you liked The Passion of the Christ or not, found it moving or not, God Bless you all anyways whether you believe in him or not my thoughts still go out to all of you.       

[torgosPizza]

Well back on Topic here. Whether you liked The Passion of the Christ or not, found it moving or not, God Bless you all anyways whether you believe in him or not my thoughts still go out to all of you.       

Well, I don't believe in God, but I appreciate the sentiment. It's good to know that we have plenty of intelligent people on here willing to sit down to a (mostly) serious and (fairly) civilized debate

In other news, I haven't actually seen the Passion, but I like all of Mel's other films. We actually saw Apocalypto here at a theater, a few of us moderators and Mike. Good times were had by all- and it wasn't as bloody as everyone made it out to be.

Er, umm, the topic.. yes.. Does this movie make a good christmas gift or not? Discuss!

[Deckard25]

I had not seen Apocalypto yet myself but i hear it was fairly well done. I really need to rent that one.


Does this movie make a good christmas gift or not? Discuss!

I think so.       

[Tyrant]

  Christmas? I think it depends on the person you're giving it to. Would I give it as a Christmas gift? I don't think I would. Not unless the person asked for it first. I'd want to be sure the person would appreciate it. There are just some movies you don't force on people. Nothing is worse than giving someone a DVD only to watch their face fall when they realize what it is.

  I  haven't seen Apocalypto yet. Everyone around here seems to rave about it. Torgo, it's got to be an absolute trip to actually be in a theater watching a movie with MIKE NELSON.

[Deckard25]

  Christmas? I think it depends on the person you're giving it to. Would I give it as a Christmas gift? I don't think I would. Not unless the person asked for it first. I'd want to be sure the person would appreciate it. There are just some movies you don't force on people. Nothing is worse than giving someone a DVD only to watch their face fall when they realize what it is.

  I  haven't seen Apocalypto yet. Everyone around here seems to rave about it. Torgo, it's got to be an absolute trip to actually be in a theater watching a movie with MIKE NELSON.

True and i do apologize, i should have thought about the gift concerning the individuals personal tastes.            I do not want to appear selfish.

Watch a film with Mike?  That would be entertaining to say the least.       

[Tyrant]

  Well, I don't think it's necesarily selfish. Sometimes you really don't know what that person wants and they have a hard time telling you so you 1) guess as best as you can and just hope you remember to include a gift receipt with it or 2) you get them a gift certificate.

  No need to apologize, though. Maybe you just haven't received many gifts like that. Usually when someone has been given a gift completely contrary to their preferences, they make a huge habit thereafter to be extremely mindful of a person's tastes when they themselves shop for presents. It only takes one time, usually.