Aaron Eckhart cast in Batman sequel

[Pak-Man]

I don't believe in god because I don't find it necessary.  It is necessary to be thankful for what is provided to you, but I don't need to follow a text to do that.  It is also necessary to be kind to those around you, but society tells me that, not the Bible.  Any society will tell you that, even ones untouched by the Bible.  If god exists, he understands exactly why I don't believe.  It's no offense to him, I just don't see why it's necessary. 

First of all, I find it interesting that you'll capitalize Batman, but not God. ;^)

More to the point, it's important to remember that God isn't the Bible. You're correct in saying that every culture tells you to uphold the many moral values in the Bible, and it's not necessary to look to the Bible without getting those morals, but it IS very interesting that these values are universal to people but not universal to every other living being on the planet. There's something different about us. That's why things we do are called "Unnatural." If it happened in nature, it wouldn't be unnatural. We're not playing nature's game. We're doing something else, and that difference couldn't come from natural evolution (Which I believe in, by the way.) Something unnatural, or at least not of OUR natural order of things, happened to us that made us what we are rather then what THEY are. It's not necessary to believe in God (At least from a purely existential standpoint) but it IS foolish to deny the possibility when there really is a lot of evidence around you. It's not necessary to believe in Earth to live on it, but it sure helps us understand it better knowing that we're here. It also seems that it's not necessary to believe in science to get around on this big ol' globe. We did it for years. :^)

And Two Plus Two Equals Quatro. There are plenty of people who'll back that up. :^)

[Variety of Cells]

ah but thats silly, i child can ACCIDENTLY guess 4 with or without being told. 

And regardless if its knowable or not its still 4.  things dont have to be known to be so.

Gah, sorry if this starts this off in a whole other direction, but when you say that there is a 4 out there, does that mean you think that there is one set of moral rules that everyone should live by?  If you do, I'm sorry, but I disagree again.  I believe there are going to be a lot of similarities, but it won't be, and never should be, the same for everyone.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

I believe there are going to be a lot of similarities, but it won't be, and never should be, the same for everyone.

can you explain?  this is rather unclear to me as to how its even hypothetically possible

[Variety of Cells]

I don't believe in god because I don't find it necessary.  It is necessary to be thankful for what is provided to you, but I don't need to follow a text to do that.  It is also necessary to be kind to those around you, but society tells me that, not the Bible.  Any society will tell you that, even ones untouched by the Bible.  If god exists, he understands exactly why I don't believe.  It's no offense to him, I just don't see why it's necessary. 

First of all, I find it interesting that you'll capitalize Batman, but not God. ;^)

More to the point, it's important to remember that God isn't the Bible. You're correct in saying that every culture tells you to uphold the many moral values in the Bible, and it's not necessary to look to the Bible without getting those morals, but it IS very interesting that these values are universal to people but not universal to every other living being on the planet. There's something different about us. That's why things we do are called "Unnatural." If it happened in nature, it wouldn't be unnatural. We're not playing nature's game. We're doing something else, and that difference couldn't come from natural evolution (Which I believe in, by the way.) Something unnatural, or at least not of OUR natural order of things, happened to us that made us what we are rather then what THEY are. It's not necessary to believe in God (At least from a purely existential standpoint) but it IS foolish to deny the possibility when there really is a lot of evidence around you. It's not necessary to believe in Earth to live on it, but it sure helps us understand it better knowing that we're here. It also seems that it's not necessary to believe in science to get around on this big ol' globe. We did it for years. :^)

And Two Plus Two Equals Quatro. There are plenty of people who'll back that up. :^)

I generally like what you said.  I have a bit of a thing about the whole nature part and how you said all humans are not apart of it, which I disagree with.  There are people that still do, and always have lived within this nature, and have understood it a lot better than us.  It just so happened that we said they were wrong, and now we take up 99% of the human population.  But that's a very different, exhausting topic.

Also, I believe humans existed before the Bible, and before the popular concept of what god is, and that most of the things taught in the Bible existed way before its creation.  People have always been taught these things, like murder is wrong, and be kind to thy neighbor, and to share, and incest is bad, and marriage is good, and so on and so forth.  The bible did not invent them.  So I see it as no surprise that they were included in the Bible. 

I don't deny the existence of some being or force.  I personally don't see any evidence for one, but it can't be ruled out.  I just deny the popular understanding of it.  But, by saying I'm an atheist, it usually conveys the correct message, that I don't believe in your god.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

and before the popular concept of what god is

thats a little tricky to try and prove

I like you VOC i do, so dint take offense to this when i say it, its not meant as an insult.  Further i wouldn't say it if i didn't think you were the type who might just maybe benefit from it. But you need to read a bit more philosophy.  Not so much so you can learn OUR point of view but so that you may understand your own a bit better.  If i have gauged you correctly you would be some sort of moral relativist.  but you lack all some of the better arguments for it. 

But, by saying I'm an atheist, it usually conveys the correct message, that I don't believe in your god.

I disagree entirely.  those are two TOTALLY different things you are saying.  Especially in this discussion

[Variety of Cells]

I believe there are going to be a lot of similarities, but it won't be, and never should be, the same for everyone.

can you explain?  this is rather unclear to me as to how its even hypothetically possible

You betcha.  I'm all about explaining. 

Here, circumcision is moral.  I personally don't think it is.  Some people say it's a tradition and a sign of faith.  To steal from the Reduced Shakespeare Company, Abraham said to God "but God, why do you want our foreskins?"  God replied.  "Because Abraham, I'm making a wallet.  And when you rub it, it turns into a suit case."  I see it as inflicting extreme pain on children who have no say in the matter.  These are moral differences.  I feel I'm right, and that you are wrong.  But I see no reason to unify everyone in banning circumcision.  It's not affecting me or my children.  And you still get to keep your tradition of circumcision that is apparently important to you (assuming that you are for circumcision) 

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

why is circumcision moral.  Thats the question you should ask.  Really think about it.  you could say the same thing about babtism.  Why is it moral.  The answer is quite different than almost any other case you could have brought up.  Those two are moral because they are obiedience to god.  No one expects non-beleivers to do those things. 

Really explain a more GENERAL case of how it is relative please i just dont get it. 

[Variety of Cells]

Umm, alright.  Not quite sure why that doesn't work.  But, let's take nudity.  Here it is illegal and immoral to walk down the street without pants, or a top for females.  Though in some countries where it's much more humid it is almost necessary. 

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

LOL again i got to mention mere christianity as a book.  he brings this up.  He even agrees with you.  His argument runs something like this in both countrys they do have levels of modesty.  There is almost no culture is completely without modesty but they differ on what it is.  Both would agree that no modesty is what is imoral. 

on a side note again read anything about moral relativism.  hell even wiki it.


Seriously though you are using examples i kind of want general terms explain more the why of it.  WHY is morality relative to enviroment as opposed to being a constant that people either follow or ignore. 

[Variety of Cells]

Hmm, if you are going to define morality as something as broad as that, then I'll admit that I don't know if there is an underlying morality in all cultures, and do not know enough about it to argue it.  I can say it doesn't make sense for everyone to always were cloths in public, and I can say it doesn't make sense for everyone to always not wear cloths.  But if both are moral for their own cultures, then we agree.

As for if all other examples are the same, I couldn't say one way or the other.  I'd have to look at it example by example.  You could define circumcision and non circumcision both as moral because you are both following the will of your particular religion.  But, if it's the will of one groups religion to oppress women, is that moral?  Or am I getting off track.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

Seriously man, you would LOVE philsophy books.  and this argument is ultimately.  what makes an action right.  what makes an action wrong.  I wish i could remember something that specifically talks about it, but morality for dummies or something probably covers all the basic arguments. 

[ScottotD]

...must fight urge to enter religion debate.

[Variety of Cells]

I'm done.  I'll tag you in if you want.  Though I have a feeling you wouldn't be arguing my point.

[ScottotD]

Is your point that people who live their lives according to a collection of short stories are often weak, hypocritical and selective of which parts of their faith to follow?.

[Variety of Cells]

ha ha.  Tag, you're in.  Good luck, and watch out for his left elbow.  You're going to need all the luck you can get if you're going to be nasty like that.