Avatar {2009}

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Aliens was brilliant.  One of those rare movies that's as good or better than the original.

[Darth Geek]

Aliens was brilliant.  One of those rare movies that's as good or better than the original.

Very true.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Aliens was brilliant.  One of those rare movies that's as good or better than the original.

I'm not sure I'd go with brilliant, but it holds up very well to repeat viewings.  Alien was best the first time viewing since it's impact comes mostly from not knowing what will happen next, Aliens is more of a fun ride even if you've seen it a bunch of times.

I think the wow factor is wearing off for Avatar, the more I see the trailers the less impressed I am, if the story is bits and pieces of other movies and books thrown together just to showcase the new CG technology it might be a long movie to sit through. 

It will come down to if he gets you to care about the natives, that's what will keep you interested once the wow factor of the pretty pictures wears off, and that's where he failed in Titanic, all the impressive effects recreating the ship and the sinking were boring because we didn't care about the stupid characters.  Guess we'll see if it ends up being another Titanic or more like Aliens or T2.  Not seeing any reviews comparing it to the star wars prequels, so hopefully it won't be that bad, episode 1 has to be the best example of the wow factor wearing off really fast and the squirm in your seat factor kicking in...

[Russell]

I don't know  if I agree about Aliens. I think it's way too slow and being stuck on the planet wasn't so much suspenseful as it was boring. Also, the marines are killed way too easily. Where were they trained? Camp Candy? I thought they were fairly well developed characters, and I cared about them but the marines hardly kicked Alien ass. I guess you could say that job should be Ripleys, but come on does Ripley have much more experience dealing with Aliens more than them? Finally, the biggest plot hole of all... you're telling me that gigantic ass Alien queen managed to SOMEHOW sneak onto the Sulloco on board the drop ship without ANYBODY NOTICING?! I mean there are plot holes and then there are PLOT HOLES.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Finally, the biggest plot hole of all... you're telling me that gigantic ass Alien queen managed to SOMEHOW sneak onto the Sulloco on board the drop ship without ANYBODY NOTICING?! I mean there are plot holes and then there are PLOT HOLES.

That's no plot hole.   She wasn't "on board" the drop ship.  She climbed up and into the "wheel well" on the bottom of the ship (where they're blind while they're flying).

The Plot Hole of the Century is in the next film since there was not even a split second from when they landed to when she went out of the air lock when the Queen could have laid the egg inside the drop ship that hatched the face-hugger that implants Ripley.  Besides, she left her egg sack back on the planet....either she needs the thing or she doesn't.

[Russell]

Finally, the biggest plot hole of all... you're telling me that gigantic ass Alien queen managed to SOMEHOW sneak onto the Sulloco on board the drop ship without ANYBODY NOTICING?! I mean there are plot holes and then there are PLOT HOLES.

That's no plot hole.   She wasn't "on board" the drop ship.  She climbed up and into the "wheel well" on the bottom of the ship (where they're blind while they're flying).
The Plot Hole of the Century is in the next film since there was not even a split second from when they landed to when she went out of the air lock when the Queen could have laid the egg inside the drop ship that hatched the face-hugger that implants Ripley.  Besides, she left her egg sack back on the planet....either she needs the thing or she doesn't.

You're telling me they didn't notice what I am SURE was a hell of a lot of extra weight from the center of gravity of the drop ship and then didn't notice a giant hulking 20 foot tall demon spawn when they disembarked from the drop ship?! Wow! That's a LOT to buy Duck! That's a LOT to buy! As for the plot hole in Alien 3... I very much agree, that's a lot worse(but not by much).

[MartyS (Gromit)]

You're telling me they didn't notice what I am SURE was a hell of a lot of extra weight from the center of gravity of the drop ship and then didn't notice a giant hulking 20 foot tall demon spawn when they disembarked from the drop ship?! Wow! That's a LOT to buy Duck! That's a LOT to buy!

Think about the disembarking scene.  Remember the alien was crammed in that spot  way up high pretty tight and took a while to extract itself, so it wasn't noticable to someone walking below...  The crammed in part could be a reasonable plot hole, was the drop ship on the ground long enough with no one looking for the alien to cram itself in there?  That and surviving long enough without air are the real possible plot holes.

As for the extra weight, the regular pilot of the drop ship probably would have noticed it flying differently, but I don't think anyone on board ever flew one before.   It was flown down on remote and not to hard to belive it was flown back on autopilot.  Also it was designed to carry a tank inside, the spare drop ship didn't have the tank in it.

[Relaxing Dragon]

Finally, the biggest plot hole of all... you're telling me that gigantic ass Alien queen managed to SOMEHOW sneak onto the Sulloco on board the drop ship without ANYBODY NOTICING?! I mean there are plot holes and then there are PLOT HOLES.

That's no plot hole.   She wasn't "on board" the drop ship.  She climbed up and into the "wheel well" on the bottom of the ship (where they're blind while they're flying).

The Plot Hole of the Century is in the next film since there was not even a split second from when they landed to when she went out of the air lock when the Queen could have laid the egg inside the drop ship that hatched the face-hugger that implants Ripley.  Besides, she left her egg sack back on the planet....either she needs the thing or she doesn't.

I've always figured that for Alien3, the eggs in question were either on the underside of the dropship, laid there in transit (I think the series has established that the creatures don't need air to live, and can do their thing in a vacuum. The one in the first one didn't actually die until it was fried, for instance), or did the laying during the time when Newt was scurrying around under the decks and Ripley was changing into the Exosuit. As for how she did it without the sack, the species may have a last-ditch method of survival for that situation, and she may be able to squeeze out an egg or two once it's gone (this is a species that's renowned for being the perfect creature, after all).

As for the weight, assuming she latched on as the ship turned around and raced off (amidst the power station falling to pieces), they may have mistaken the sudden weight gain as a piece of the station striking them. And at that point Bishop was going full power and devoting all energy (and attention) to outrunning the blast, so he may not have noticed it anyway.

[Russell]

You're telling me they didn't notice what I am SURE was a hell of a lot of extra weight from the center of gravity of the drop ship and then didn't notice a giant hulking 20 foot tall demon spawn when they disembarked from the drop ship?! Wow! That's a LOT to buy Duck! That's a LOT to buy!

Think about the disembarking scene.  Remember the alien was crammed in that spot  way up high pretty tight and took a while to extract itself, so it wasn't noticable to someone walking below...  The crammed in part could be a reasonable plot hole, was the drop ship on the ground long enough with no one looking for the alien to cram itself in there?  That and surviving long enough without air are the real possible plot holes.
As for the extra weight, the regular pilot of the drop ship probably would have noticed it flying differently, but I don't think anyone on board ever flew one before.   It was flown down on remote and not to hard to belive it was flown back on autopilot.  Also it was designed to carry a tank inside, the spare drop ship didn't have the tank in it.

You're telling me there just happened to be enough room inside that compartment for it to fit itself inside that little space? Also, if the thing grabbed onto the frontal landing skid like we're saying it did, the nose of the drop ship would have definitely dipped down. The pilot would have to be an idiot not to notice that.... and the pilot was Bishop and I think we can all agree he's probably not an idiot. Sorry, no sale.

[Elijah Baley]

As I see it, if we keep talking about Aliens we'll be very sorely disappointed in Avatar which, by every measure and every advance review, has no chance of being as good or better in any way but the visual effects.

[Russell]

As I see it, if we keep talking about Aliens we'll be very sorely disappointed in Avatar

So let's keep talking about Aliens then   

[MartyS (Gromit)]

You're telling me they didn't notice what I am SURE was a hell of a lot of extra weight from the center of gravity of the drop ship and then didn't notice a giant hulking 20 foot tall demon spawn when they disembarked from the drop ship?! Wow! That's a LOT to buy Duck! That's a LOT to buy!

Think about the disembarking scene.  Remember the alien was crammed in that spot  way up high pretty tight and took a while to extract itself, so it wasn't noticable to someone walking below...  The crammed in part could be a reasonable plot hole, was the drop ship on the ground long enough with no one looking for the alien to cram itself in there?  That and surviving long enough without air are the real possible plot holes.
As for the extra weight, the regular pilot of the drop ship probably would have noticed it flying differently, but I don't think anyone on board ever flew one before.   It was flown down on remote and not to hard to belive it was flown back on autopilot.  Also it was designed to carry a tank inside, the spare drop ship didn't have the tank in it.

You're telling me there just happened to be enough room inside that compartment for it to fit itself inside that little space? Also, if the thing grabbed onto the frontal landing skid like we're saying it did, the nose of the drop ship would have definitely dipped down. The pilot would have to be an idiot not to notice that.... and the pilot was Bishop and I think we can all agree he's probably not an idiot. Sorry, no sale.

OK, just put in the DVD to check because I did remember something happening while they were lifting off, go back and watch that scene, one of the side landing skids gets caught on some metal and the ship does tilt that way, also the skid doesn't retract all the way into it's well, we see it with bits of what we think are metal sticking out around the almost fully retracted skid, we have to assume the alien jumped into the well during the moment it was stuck on the metal.  And that is the well the alien comes out of after they land and are walking under the drop ship, when Bishop gets spiked we pan up to see the alien in the well so obviously it fit in there....

Like I said, the plot hole really is how quick the alien could have jumped in and crammed itself into the well for the skid.  Or having what looks like a wheel well for a flat landing skid might be considered a flaw.

[Russell]

OK, just put in the DVD to check because I did remember something happening while they were lifting off, go back and watch that scene, one of the side landing skids gets caught on some metal and the ship does tilt that way, also the skid doesn't retract all the way into it's well, we see it with bits of what we think are metal sticking out around the almost fully retracted skid, we have to assume the alien jumped into the well during the moment it was stuck on the metal.  And that is the well the alien comes out of after they land and are walking under the drop ship, when Bishop gets spiked we pan up to see the alien in the well so obviously it fit in there....
Like I said, the plot hole really is how quick the alien could have jumped in and crammed itself into the well for the skid.  Or having what looks like a wheel well for a flat landing skid might be considered a flaw.

I remember that, but I am still unconvinced. It's a movie! If something happens, SHOW it. There's no reason why they couldn't show the Queen tucking herself into an orifice on the ship or given a hint as to that. No matter how you slice it... it just doesn't work on any level.

[Doctor Who?]

OK, just put in the DVD to check because I did remember something happening while they were lifting off, go back and watch that scene, one of the side landing skids gets caught on some metal and the ship does tilt that way, also the skid doesn't retract all the way into it's well, we see it with bits of what we think are metal sticking out around the almost fully retracted skid, we have to assume the alien jumped into the well during the moment it was stuck on the metal.  And that is the well the alien comes out of after they land and are walking under the drop ship, when Bishop gets spiked we pan up to see the alien in the well so obviously it fit in there....
Like I said, the plot hole really is how quick the alien could have jumped in and crammed itself into the well for the skid.  Or having what looks like a wheel well for a flat landing skid might be considered a flaw.

I remember that, but I am still unconvinced. It's a movie! If something happens, SHOW it. There's no reason why they couldn't show the Queen tucking herself into an orifice on the ship or given a hint as to that. No matter how you slice it... it just doesn't work on any level.

Showing the queen going into the ship would have spoiled the shock of seeing Biship impailed just when you think they are safe.  It would be like showing a scene of Anthony Perkins going and getting the knife right after Janet leigh steps in the shower in `Psyco.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

OK, just put in the DVD to check because I did remember something happening while they were lifting off, go back and watch that scene, one of the side landing skids gets caught on some metal and the ship does tilt that way, also the skid doesn't retract all the way into it's well, we see it with bits of what we think are metal sticking out around the almost fully retracted skid, we have to assume the alien jumped into the well during the moment it was stuck on the metal.  And that is the well the alien comes out of after they land and are walking under the drop ship, when Bishop gets spiked we pan up to see the alien in the well so obviously it fit in there....
Like I said, the plot hole really is how quick the alien could have jumped in and crammed itself into the well for the skid.  Or having what looks like a wheel well for a flat landing skid might be considered a flaw.

I remember that, but I am still unconvinced. It's a movie! If something happens, SHOW it. There's no reason why they couldn't show the Queen tucking herself into an orifice on the ship or given a hint as to that. No matter how you slice it... it just doesn't work on any level.

Yeah, you're right.  Like Hitchcock really screwed up Psycho by not showing Norman going back up to the house and dressing as Mom before coming back to kill Marion in the shower...."If something happens, SHOW it."....kill all the shock and surprise in a horror film.   

And btw...we don't know how much any of these Aliens weigh....drones or Queen.  That armored exoskeleton of theirs could be very very light.

Plus any extra weight the drop ship might have read could have been lost in the fact that 1) they were climbing as fast as that ship could go and 2) they were then hit with the wave of an huge explosion.....the ship's sensors were probably dealing with a lot.