Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILERS HERE

[Darth Geek]

I didn't get "love interest" at all from Finn and Jannah. Can't people have platonic relationships in movies anymore?

It felt very one sided to me, Jannah romantically interested in Finn.

Ackie said."Also, like, we need to see Finn with someone, man! This man's been bandied around. He needs to be loving on someone."

And that is bullshit! Not every character needs to have a love story. Especially in an action sci-fi movie. This isn't a goddamn romcom!

[kunedog]

Some things I've realized since I saw it:

• The Rebellion succeeded, but that got retconned.  The New Republic was a complete failure, allowing the First Order to rise and obliterate it.  The Resistance accomplished nothing after TFA except to serve as a life support system for Rey, who AFAICT doesn't even need them (or anyone else).  In my review, I wondered which one to call this final armada, but it's none of those.  "Just people"?  That's a militia.  Screw the Republic and Resistance, Lando raised a militia to deal with the tyranny once and for all.
• Force healing is almost as galaxy-breaking as hyperspace-ramming, but at least it's limited to jedi.
• I don't buy the official explanation for Rose's sidelining (to "anchor" her to Leia).  Given the recognition of the rest of TLJ's flaws, IMO the filmmakers knew going in just how unpopular her actions had made her and decided to dodge that bullet this time.
• I have been a Star Wars fan most of my life, but definitely not hardcore enough to recognize a dozen jedi from voice clips, some of which were less than a second long.  Could've used some faces or other visual effects, but I'll bet the minimalist star field shot was the best thing they could do because of rewrites and short notice (and whatever).
• No dice.  Someone in some video somewhere mentioned Solo, and I suddenly remembered the 30 closeups of the gold dice, and how AFAIK they aren't (noticeable) in this movie at all.
• Did Leia project herself as a Han-shaped force-ghost, or did she connect to Kylo's mind and make him hallicinate?  Basically I wonder if other people would have seen Han if they were standing there with him.
• Kylo's mask is strangely more symmetrical after being smashed to pieces and repaired.

"This is the cinematic equivalent of two babies fighting over which one's toys get to be in the fucking sandbox."

It's amazing how incompetent the writing turns out to be when it's laid bare and examined step-by-step like this.  Yeah, it's long, but that's because he's covering the whole movie and it's a dense subject, and IMO this is much more worthwhile than a second watchthru, (which I expect to get from the Rifftrax anyway).

[kunedog]

Ackie said."Also, like, we need to see Finn with someone, man! This man's been bandied around. He needs to be loving on someone."

And that is bullshit! Not every character needs to have a love story. Especially in an action sci-fi movie. This isn't a goddamn romcom!

I agree . . . big deal, Finn isn't special.  IIRC it's pretty rare for anyone to get laid in Star Wars: we have Han/Leia, Annakin/Padme, . . . and now Palpatine?  Kerri Russell blew off Poe, and neither of them are even celibate or jedi:

Pretty sure Plinkett made a point about how sterile and sexless the universe is, which was mostly commentary on the prequels but it seems to have held up under Disney (not too shocking).

[goflyblind]

I don't buy the official explanation for Rose's sidelining (to "anchor" her to Leia).  Given the recognition of the rest of TLJ's flaws, IMO the filmmakers knew going in just how unpopular her actions had made her and decided to dodge that bullet this time capitulate to racist, sexist whiny internet trolls.

[kunedog]

"Poorly written and unpopular" is not a race (or sex).

[goflyblind]

"Poorly written and unpopular" is not a race (or sex).

rather than improving the writing, let's cut any screentime from the character and give it to a white hobbit!

[kunedog]

I'll not have you besmirch the well-researched, plot-critical role JJ wrote for his (other) personal friend, sir!

[Kete]

"Poorly written and unpopular" is not a race (or sex).

While that's true, Kelly Marie Tran had to quit Twitter because of the racist and sexist attacks she was getting from fanboys.

[Kete]

One thing that keeps bugging me, is that I can't think of a single thing that the new trilogy did to progress the story.
-Palpatine's dead, ok, that happened at the end of ROTJ
-The Empire was dealt a crushing blow by the rebels, but wasn't really defeated. Yup, ROTJ.
-There is a lone Jedi that may attempt to resurrect the Jedi order. Again, ROTJ
The only thing they really did was kill off the 3 main characters in ways that didn't progress the overall story.  Han and Leia both sacrificed themselves to save Ben, but Ben is gone. Luke sacrificed himself to save the Rebellion which went on to redo the ending of ROTJ.

[Pak-Man]

Well it wrapped up everything it started, leaving a blank slate for the next trilogy to do whatever it wants to do, which is probably the kind of "progression" we can expect if we keep doing this, and I want to keep doing this. The numbered Star Wars movies have always been about the Skywalkers. Since this is "The end of the Skywalker Saga," we get to see what happened to the lineage, and find out that the name lives on. There's a new group of heroes that we can revisit or not. The next Star Wars trilogy won't focus on Skywalkers and doesn't even have to be about an empire and a republic. It's beholden to nothing, and that's kind of exciting.

I'm not sure whether it's cynical or optimistic, but I kind of always figured that would be the goal of the third trilogy. Out with the old, in with the new. Give the old heroes we've loved for 42 years a proper sendoff (Your version of "proper" may vary, but I feel like they all died with their boots on), and plant the seeds for new heroes and new stories. The idealistic part of me would love to have had movie after movie about the adventures of Han, Chewie, and Leia, but that ship sailed a long time ago.

[The Lurker]

That's kinda the problem with Lucas waiting so long.

[The Lurker]

I do find it amusing that the First Order is basically "We taught him wrong on purpose", but played seriously.

[Quirk]

One thing that keeps bugging me, is that I can't think of a single thing that the new trilogy did to progress the story.
-Palpatine's dead, ok, that happened at the end of ROTJ
-The Empire was dealt a crushing blow by the rebels, but wasn't really defeated. Yup, ROTJ.
-There is a lone Jedi that may attempt to resurrect the Jedi order. Again, ROTJ
The only thing they really did was kill off the 3 main characters in ways that didn't progress the overall story.  Han and Leia both sacrificed themselves to save Ben, but Ben is gone. Luke sacrificed himself to save the Rebellion which went on to redo the ending of ROTJ.

Rian Johnson seemed to be moving the trilogy toward something new: grey Jedi. If the saga was incomplete after the OT and the PT, and the Light Side destroying the Dark Side has just made history start to repeat itself (the story JJ started), then grey Jedi is the only logical progression. Balance is not brought to the force by extremes fighting, but by extremes meeting in the middle for peace. I thought that's what Rey and Kylo were going to do, but no. The ST has no point, and now neither does the entire saga other than a Hero's Journey... twice.

[stansimpson]

One thing that keeps bugging me, is that I can't think of a single thing that the new trilogy did to progress the story.
-Palpatine's dead, ok, that happened at the end of ROTJ
-The Empire was dealt a crushing blow by the rebels, but wasn't really defeated. Yup, ROTJ.
-There is a lone Jedi that may attempt to resurrect the Jedi order. Again, ROTJ
The only thing they really did was kill off the 3 main characters in ways that didn't progress the overall story.  Han and Leia both sacrificed themselves to save Ben, but Ben is gone. Luke sacrificed himself to save the Rebellion which went on to redo the ending of ROTJ.

Rian Johnson seemed to be moving the trilogy toward something new: grey Jedi. If the saga was incomplete after the OT and the PT, and the Light Side destroying the Dark Side has just made history start to repeat itself (the story JJ started), then grey Jedi is the only logical progression. Balance is not brought to the force by extremes fighting, but by extremes meeting in the middle for peace. I thought that's what Rey and Kylo were going to do, but no.

That's what I wanted ever since Rey & Kylo teamed up in the throne room in TLJ. *That's* the story! I really thought ROS about 40mins in that we were finally going to get that story (right when Rey says something "I know what I have to do"). And I figured she would realize not to give into the hate but only after reaching levels of Anakin; something Luke never dealt with. It would give her the strongest story arc. Which is something she & the audience was absolutely owed imo.

Haven't heard of a grey Jedi theory, but I *love* it! It would effectively make it the OT's Kirk to ST's Picard. My only distaste for that would be that, if done even slightly wrong, would feel *incredibly* politically charged and of-its-time. As much as I felt that TLJ didn't fit the themes/genre of the previous 7 films, I believe JJ could've incorporated the themes TLJ was going for while maintaining a sense of adventure.

The ST has no point, and now neither does the entire saga other than a Hero's Journey... twice.

You mean we get the story found in every story ever more than once!?!

[Darth Geek]

One thing that keeps bugging me, is that I can't think of a single thing that the new trilogy did to progress the story.
-Palpatine's dead, ok, that happened at the end of ROTJ
-The Empire was dealt a crushing blow by the rebels, but wasn't really defeated. Yup, ROTJ.
-There is a lone Jedi that may attempt to resurrect the Jedi order. Again, ROTJ
The only thing they really did was kill off the 3 main characters in ways that didn't progress the overall story.  Han and Leia both sacrificed themselves to save Ben, but Ben is gone. Luke sacrificed himself to save the Rebellion which went on to redo the ending of ROTJ.

Rian Johnson seemed to be moving the trilogy toward something new: grey Jedi. If the saga was incomplete after the OT and the PT, and the Light Side destroying the Dark Side has just made history start to repeat itself (the story JJ started), then grey Jedi is the only logical progression. Balance is not brought to the force by extremes fighting, but by extremes meeting in the middle for peace. I thought that's what Rey and Kylo were going to do, but no. The ST has no point, and now neither does the entire saga other than a Hero's Journey... twice.

If Rian Johnson wanted to do that, he should have had Rey and Ben as allies (even hesitant ones) at the end of his movie. As it is the only change between the end of Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker is that Luke and Snoke are dead. We don't know anything about Snoke other than he manipulated Kylo, but his death has no effect on anything else apparently. Luke was away for decades and had even disconnected himself from The Force, so as far as the main plot is concerned he may as well have already been dead.
For all the things The Last Jedi seemed to want to do, the plot really felt like it was treading water.