The Joker revealed

[gbeenie]

As much as I enjoyed Batman Begins (and I enjoyed the HELL out of it), keep in mind that almost all of the "inspiration" it drew from classic comics stories consisted of name-dropping. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but the little "squee" I felt when names like Flass and Commissioner Loeb were mentioned was quickly replaced with the understanding that the movie characters bore virtually no resemblance to their comics counterparts. It's kind of like the whole "Gwen Stacy" thing in Spider-Man 3; why bother having that character even be Gwen Stacy, when nothing about her place in the movie's story requires it?

At least using characters from Year One and Long Halloween proves that someone involved with Batman Begins actually read a Batman comic, which is more effort than Tim Burton put into his movie. And it's not like they strayed that far. Flass was still a corrupt cop that Gordon had to work with, he just didn't end up beating the tar out if him. And although I thought it was weird to cast an English actor as "The Roman," Tom Wilkinson nailed the "I'm untouchable in Gotham" attitude.

All in all, besides the completely wrong casting of Katie Holmes as Harvey Dent (pretty much), and the pointless "Let's show off this Bat-tank for no good reason" scene, I though Batman Begins was damn near perfect. I'm still on the fence about Heath Ledger, but Chris Nolan's earned my trust for the time being. Plus, Aaron Eckhart's perfect for Harvey Dent and Eric Roberts should be good as Sal Maroni (There's that "squee" again.) And Anthony Michael Hall's playing a role he can't talk about? Hmm...

You're quite right, and I should mention again that the name-dropping wasn't a qualm I had with Batman Begins (which, again, I thought was really awesome); it was just something I noticed.

How funny is it that Nestor Carbonell's playing the mayor of Gotham?

Only if his phone rings in the movie, and it's That Ringtone. 

p.s. I answered my phone "Batmanuel" for a LONG TIME.

[Johnny Unusual]

I'm glad Batman is in the hands of someone who will treat it like a horror story instead of a super-hero movie.

I'm going to have to disagree.  I think it should be treated as a mildly horrific Super-hero movie (mildly because at least teenagers should be allowed to watch a friggin' Batman movie).  The Joker is probably the all-time scariest super-villain, but at the same time, if there's too much emphasis on the Joker, then it has one of the same problem's Tim Burton's Batman did (which was too much Joker).  In my eyes, the Joker should be simultaneously scary and funny.

Me, I want the Joker to be a mix of the Joker of the Joker Fish story, the animated Joker from the Paul Dini series and the Killing Joke.  And if you want to use the Grant Morrison/Dave McKean's Arkham Asylum Joker, I say use him sparingly to make it even scarier.

If you aren't familiar with the Joker Fish story, it's what I think is a definitive Joker plot: he throws Joker venom in the water and starts creating fish with his own creepy ass smile.  The Joker's big plan: to trademark them.  The idea is insane and would never work, except that the Joker doesn't care.  It's not about the money (though that'd be nice) or the body count (though that's be nicer).  It's about the joke, the commitment to the material.  He doesn't hate Batman, but sees him as his straight man and his playmate, though one who may end up dying.  I think Batman surviving makes the Joker happy (though not necessarily the plan-foiling) simply because he's the only one to keep up with him consistently.

I also hope they use the Joker theme from the animated series (by Danny Elfman, I think.  Correct me if I'm wrong) which is both playful and sinister.

My point: the Joker is a character who can make you laugh one minute, scream the next.

[Sharktopus]

I'm glad Batman is in the hands of someone who will treat it like a horror story instead of a super-hero movie.

I'm going to have to disagree.  I think it should be treated as a mildly horrific Super-hero movie (mildly because at least teenagers should be allowed to watch a friggin' Batman movie).  The Joker is probably the all-time scariest super-villain, but at the same time, if there's too much emphasis on the Joker, then it has one of the same problem's Tim Burton's Batman did (which was too much Joker).  In my eyes, the Joker should be simultaneously scary and funny.

Me, I want the Joker to be a mix of the Joker of the Joker Fish story, the animated Joker from the Paul Dini series and the Killing Joke.  And if you want to use the Grant Morrison/Dave McKean's Arkham Asylum Joker, I say use him sparingly to make it even scarier.

If you aren't familiar with the Joker Fish story, it's what I think is a definitive Joker plot: he throws Joker venom in the water and starts creating fish with the Joker's creepy ass smile.  The Joker's big plan: to trademark them.  The idea is insane and would never work, except that the Joker doesn't care.  It's not about the money (though that'd be nice) or the body count (though that's be nicer).  It's about the joke, the commitment to the material.  He doesn't hate Batman, but sees him as his straight man and his playmate, though one who may end up dying.  I think Batman surviving makes the Joker happy (though not necessarily the plan-foiling) simply because he's the only one to keep up with him consistently.

My point: the Joker is a character who can make you laugh one minute, scream the next.

I think you just desribed what everyone is hoping for - a clever balance between funny and scary. The key is that the audience needs to get a laugh out of situations where the characters are scared. It's a tall order.

I also hope they use the Joker theme from the animated series (by Danny Elfman, I think.  Correct me if I'm wrong) which is both playful and sinister.

The late Shirley Walker composed nearly all the music for BTAS, but she had collaborated with Elfman frequently before that, and his influence on the Batman theme is obvious. I'd love to hear some aspect of her Joker theme incorporated - it still pops up in my head every once in a while. One of my few gripes with Batman Begins - as well as most of the recent superhero movies - is that there was no truly memorable theme music, which was so key to the earlier Batman and Superman films. Of course, Superman Returns relied on John Williams' Superman theme a little too much...

[Sharktopus]

i always pictured harley as a nutjob lol -- bell might be able to pull it off, but i'd still prefer misty

You're not seriously suggesting a soft-core porn star should play Harley Quinn, right? I can't quite tell if you're joking.

Although she'd be perfect for my Joker movie:

[gbeenie]

Although she'd be perfect for my Joker movie:

Let it go, Shark. Let it go.

[Sharktopus]

Although she'd be perfect for my Joker movie:

Let it go, Shark. Let it go.

NEVER! Funny, yet terrifying, Saget is the perfect Joker.

[gbeenie]

Although she'd be perfect for my Joker movie:

Let it go, Shark. Let it go.

NEVER! Funny, yet terrifying, Saget is the perfect Joker.

Maybe, but he's WAY too foul-mouthed for a PG-13 film (seriously; did you see him in The Aristocrats?).

[Sharktopus]

Although she'd be perfect for my Joker movie:

Let it go, Shark. Let it go.

NEVER! Funny, yet terrifying, Saget is the perfect Joker.

Maybe, but he's WAY too foul-mouthed for a PG-13 film (seriously; did you see him in The Aristocrats?).

I'm pretty sure he can done it down if need be. I seem to remember him keeping it clean on Full House. But yeah, he was one of the very few segments in The Aristocrats that was genuinely funny, and mostly because he was cracking himself up along with everyone else in the room. Seeing other people laugh is always funny.

I really just want people to have nightmares featuring a grinning, clown-faced Saget.

[gbeenie]

If you're going for nightmare-fuel, time to gas up the Pauly Shore.

[Sharktopus]

Nah, Pauly's irritating but harmless. But you never know with the Saget. He could be sitting home right now eating the eyeballs of his victims out of a candy jar.

[Hebs]

I'm glad Batman is in the hands of someone who will treat it like a horror story instead of a super-hero movie.

I'm going to have to disagree.  I think it should be treated as a mildly horrific Super-hero movie (mildly because at least teenagers should be allowed to watch a friggin' Batman movie).  The Joker is probably the all-time scariest super-villain, but at the same time, if there's too much emphasis on the Joker, then it has one of the same problem's Tim Burton's Batman did (which was too much Joker).  In my eyes, the Joker should be simultaneously scary and funny.

Yeah, I can agree with you there.  It's definitely a difficult assignment if you're an actor, to play 'crazy'  -  if you over do it, you're a ham, if you don't do the right things enough, you're not scary.  I've always pictured him having a bizarre attractiveness that segways to exorbitant insantiy.  And killing.

And there is WAY too much Saget in this thread.  I mean, WAY too much.

[Rude]

I really just want people to have nightmares featuring a grinning, clown-faced Saget.

You mean... you don't already have those nightmares?! I just assumed we all did. 

-Rude

[ScottotD]

I really liked "Batman Begins"... and it's not a hard argument to say it's the best comic book movie ever. (even if I still prefer something about Keaton over Bale. )

Agreed. No matter what Keaton does you know he's just a hair's breadth from plainly psychotic; it worked perfectly.

See, I saw him more as a nerdy guy playing RPG.

[msmpls]

Although she'd be perfect for my Joker movie:

Let it go, Shark. Let it go.

NEVER! Funny, yet terrifying, Saget is the perfect Joker.

Maybe, but he's WAY too foul-mouthed for a PG-13 film (seriously; did you see him in The Aristocrats?).

I'm pretty sure he can done it down if need be. I seem to remember him keeping it clean on Full House. But yeah, he was one of the very few segments in The Aristocrats that was genuinely funny, and mostly because he was cracking himself up along with everyone else in the room. Seeing other people laugh is always funny.

I really just want people to have nightmares featuring a grinning, clown-faced Saget.

HA! it's punny because Danny Tanner was a neat freak!!!

well done.
+ 4 scene points.

[J-Proof]

i always pictured harley as a nutjob lol -- bell might be able to pull it off, but i'd still prefer misty

You're not seriously suggesting a soft-core porn star should play Harley Quinn, right? I can't quite tell if you're joking.

Not /all/ her movies fall into that category, but I am serious -- I think Erin Brown is perfect for the Harley Quinn role. She could pull off the nutjob meets seductress meets vulnerable thing.