Avatar {2009}

[Russell]

http://blip.tv/play/hIVVgbiFVgI

Spoony puts things so clearly and concisely. I know I am going to get flamed for this but I totally agree with him.

[Vent]

I think I figured it out... Avatar is kind of like this generations Attack of the 50 Foot Woman, it's made to appeal to a certain subcultures fetish and everyone else just gets kind of wrapped up in the novelty.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

I guess my main problem with the story - what kept me from getting immersed in it.....

My question going in (among many) was....you have humans using manufactured bodies going into this village presumably undercover.  They're telling them that they're from another village?  How do they explain it if something happens that someone tries to wake up the avatar and they can't do it because the human is on their "break"..and all sorts of other potential problems....?

But then, it turns out that the native people not only know that these things that look like them are really "Sky People" inside but they apparently understand the technology involved in the doing of it...everything about them interfacing from another location and all...and despite being considered just "fly bitten savages" and having no tech of their own, they are completely accepting of this concept and perfectly comfortable with it all.   It makes it seem like the humans had been there for generations doing this (which is why the natives are so familiar with them and their machines) and yet the humans act like all of this is new....

Besides, they wouldn't wait generations to get at what's under that tree.

At least in Star Trek Insurrection you had the supposedly backward natives that The Powers That Be want to move to get at something rare but these people had had technology before and had rejected it so that's why their visitors didn't freak them out.....and there was the "duck blind" where they watched them.....

(Oh my god....it is kind of the same plot....only without Data's inflatable ass...)

Many times over on Alan Dean Foster's website people have asked him why he doesn't do that kind of book, since there are so many alien cultures in his commonwealth.  He always answers that the publishers will not look at a book that doesn't have any humans in it....

Wow....good thing books like Dune, Lord of the Rings, Animal Farm and Watership Down were published back before...um, whatever point in time that publishing houses turned stupid....

Maybe if Foster put an Emo Vampire in his books......?

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

http://blip.tv/play/AYG4wAkC"%20type="application/x-shockwave-flash"%20width="480"%20height="297"%20allowscriptaccess="always"%20allowfullscreen="true">

[MSTJedi]

I can't watch that review because of all your friggin' gif sigs and avatar! My poor wittle computer can't handle all that movement apparently.

[NOHC]

I met a really cute 9 foot tall blue chick once.  She was pretty hot, but we just weren't compatible.  She was firewire and I was USB.  Our ports just didn't match up.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

I can't watch that review because of all your friggin' gif sigs and avatar! My poor wittle computer can't handle all that movement apparently.

Then go to his site.

[Relaxing Dragon]

CHUD (my go-to site, apparently) takes a look at the Avatar script and what could've been: http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html

Some of that looks really interesting, particularly the stuff about the guy who's Avatar dies while he was controlling it.

[Vent]

Support our troops against smurfy-cats and teddy bears.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Some of that looks really interesting, particularly the stuff about the guy who's Avatar dies while he was controlling it.

Yeah...did we ever find out what happened to the other guy?

His avatar got shot and we saw him out of the pod, sitting on the floor convulsing....but that was all I remember.

[Relaxing Dragon]

Some of that looks really interesting, particularly the stuff about the guy who's Avatar dies while he was controlling it.

Yeah...did we ever find out what happened to the other guy?

His avatar got shot and we saw him out of the pod, sitting on the floor convulsing....but that was all I remember.

I'm pretty sure he was fine by the end, since he was one of the humans allowed to stay on the planet afterward, holding a gun as the rest of the humans were ferried off.

I'm still a bit confused by the whole process. At first I figured it was like the Matrix, where if you die in the body you die for real, but then the quick-release buttons and that guy at the end tossed that theory out the window. Wish they concentrated on that a bit more (hence my statement above).

[MartyS (Gromit)]

I guess my main problem with the story - what kept me from getting immersed in it.....

My question going in (among many) was....you have humans using manufactured bodies going into this village presumably undercover.  They're telling them that they're from another village?  How do they explain it if something happens that someone tries to wake up the avatar and they can't do it because the human is on their "break"..and all sorts of other potential problems....?

But then, it turns out that the native people not only know that these things that look like them are really "Sky People" inside but they apparently understand the technology involved in the doing of it...everything about them interfacing from another location and all...and despite being considered just "fly bitten savages" and having no tech of their own, they are completely accepting of this concept and perfectly comfortable with it all.   It makes it seem like the humans had been there for generations doing this (which is why the natives are so familiar with them and their machines) and yet the humans act like all of this is new....

Besides, they wouldn't wait generations to get at what's under that tree.

At the very start what's his name that's narrating his own story says he grew up hearing about Pandora, so obviously they have been there for generations.  So, yea, why only now are they so interested in that unexplained mineral stuff??

They also say there was a school run by Sigourney Weaver's Avatar that was closed down (again unexplained).

So, I guess we have to assume scientists have been on the planet for a while and the natives were cool with it, then humans discovered this mineral or whatever it is and the evil corporation and it's goons rolled in....

I've mentioned elsewhere:  They had a bunch of scientists in the plot, why not use them for some exposition?  That's how science fiction is supposed to work, you have the geek characters talking about how and why stuff works.  This is OK fantasy but not very good science fiction.

Many times over on Alan Dean Foster's website people have asked him why he doesn't do that kind of book, since there are so many alien cultures in his commonwealth.  He always answers that the publishers will not look at a book that doesn't have any humans in it....

Wow....good thing books like Dune, Lord of the Rings, Animal Farm and Watership Down were published back before...um, whatever point in time that publishing houses turned stupid....

Yea, I'm pretty sure things were very different publishing science fiction in the 50s and 60s vs. today.  And anyway, Dune and LOTR had humans in them, granted Dune was so far in the future they were supposed to be very different from today.  Never read Animal Farm or Watership Down...

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

At the very start what's his name that's narrating his own story says he grew up hearing about Pandora, so obviously they have been there for generations.

Well maybe it proves they've been there as long as this guy has been alive (and he's what?  Late 20's?).  And I've heard of the bushmen of the kalahari all my life...doesn't mean that they're any closer to understanding our culture and technology.

And anyway, Dune and LOTR had humans in them, granted Dune was so far in the future they were supposed to be very different from today.

I don't think they're humans from Earth in either case...and that's what I figured Foster was talking about.  That unless there were Earthlings in the book, publishers don't want to know.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

At the very start what's his name that's narrating his own story says he grew up hearing about Pandora, so obviously they have been there for generations.

Well maybe it proves they've been there as long as this guy has been alive (and he's what?  Late 20's?).  And I've heard of the bushmen of the kalahari all my life...doesn't mean that they're any closer to understanding our culture and technology.

Good point, but you'd have to say at least 30 years, and that base camp didn't look like it's been in operation that long.  So the timeline certainly needs explaining (among a lot of other stuff).  The overall story certainly was not flushed out all that well, maybe on the DVD release there will be commentaries explaining it all...

This movie is another case of focusing on the visuals and neglecting the story.  But the stories it rips off are good enough to at least keep you just interested enough to keep watching.  And the visuals (at least in 3D) are impressive enough to make up for the neglected narrative.

It doesn't seem like the natives understand the technology, but have been exposed to it long enough that they have accepted it (at least this is what it seems like Cameron is trying to get us to belive).   Think of a camera crew filming the bushmen, they might not have any idea what the strange objects called cameras do but they've been exposed to them for long enough to allow them in.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

This movie is another case of focusing on the visuals and neglecting the story.  But the stories it rips off are good enough to at least keep you just interested enough to keep watching.

Uncomfortable labeling Avatar a "rip off"...

You don't bitch at Forbidden Planet for being a retelling of "The Tempest" or call West Side Story a rip off of "Romeo and Juliet".

Avatar retells a classic story in an entertaining way.  Was it entertaining enough to go to the effort is still up for discussion.