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Remaining un-DVD'd MST3Ks & Exclusive Shout! Bonus Discs

Started by LucasM, July 30, 2015, 06:55:56 PM

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Iron Curtain

#150
December 31, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: LucasM on February 10, 2016, 09:16:13 PM
EDIT Nov 22, 2016: UPDATED LIST now includes through Vol. 38.

With Tyrant's comment, it just popped into my head that I have a function in Word Perfect to sort things by every character in a line.  So I took my ordered-by-episode list, dropped it in there, and now here is an index sorted by set number, for anyone interested.  I'm just full of helpful stuff, eh?  [Well, I've been told I was "full of it" by people before.... :)]

INDEX OF RELEASED DVDs SORTED BY SET NUMBER

Same legend for what the labels mean:
"V" = 'volume'
"IND" = a release that was sold as an individual disc (not in a set)
"ESS" = in the 'Essentials' two-pack ['Manos' was also sold as a single-disc]
"20th" = '20th Anniversary' set, is also Volume 13
"25th" = '25th Anniversary' set, is also Volume 28
Sets 1-12 and all individual disc issues were Rhino, sets 13-on are all Shout! Factory.



Thanks to this list (or another just like it which I can't fish out for some reason), I bought Volume 32 from Shout Factory with a 25% discount. Once again, thanks!

abosch

#151
January 01, 2017, 05:47:55 PM
The mods should make this thread a sticky one!

LucasM

#152
January 01, 2017, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: Iron Curtain on December 31, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: LucasM on February 10, 2016, 09:16:13 PM
EDIT Nov 22, 2016: UPDATED LIST now includes through Vol. 38.

With Tyrant's comment, it just popped into my head that I have a function in Word Perfect to sort things by every character in a line.  So I took my ordered-by-episode list, dropped it in there, and now here is an index sorted by set number, for anyone interested.  I'm just full of helpful stuff, eh?  [Well, I've been told I was "full of it" by people before.... :)]

INDEX OF RELEASED DVDs SORTED BY SET NUMBER

Same legend for what the labels mean:
"V" = 'volume'
"IND" = a release that was sold as an individual disc (not in a set)
"ESS" = in the 'Essentials' two-pack ['Manos' was also sold as a single-disc]
"20th" = '20th Anniversary' set, is also Volume 13
"25th" = '25th Anniversary' set, is also Volume 28
Sets 1-12 and all individual disc issues were Rhino, sets 13-on are all Shout! Factory.



Thanks to this list (or another just like it which I can't fish out for some reason), I bought Volume 32 from Shout Factory with a 25% discount. Once again, thanks!

You are welcome!  Glad I could help. :)
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects

stethacantus

#153
February 18, 2017, 09:18:14 AM
I am pretty sure that Shout! Factory will end up releasing every episode, possibly even the complete KTMA episodes, although it appears those episodes are in poor condition and would need a lot of work to restore into something that could be sold on DVD/Blu Ray. It appears that Shout! left the most troubling films for last, a.k.a., the films they would need to pay an arm an a leg for to release. You must remember that Shout! inherited a mess from Rhino. Films were first released as individuals, then as volumes. Santa Claus Conquers the Martians was double dipped withManos, and many of the release rights were obtained from the wrong parties. All Shout! could do at that point was continue releasing the episodes as volumes. But the real goal here seems to be to release the episodes in season box sets. That would explain why the volumes come in no thrill boxes and the episodes on individual disks. I believe that at some point when Shout! gets the last of the release rights then we will see $150 box sets for entire seasons, while those not wanting to double dip will be able to buy individual episodes and possibly order the empty season boxes to store already owned Shout! released episodes in.

But since Rhino began things as random episode volumes, the strategy seems to be to hold off on the hard to get episodes for last, and hope that by the time Shout! gets to them they will not be a s hard to get, or that certain people who are reluctant to sell the rights either retire or die. But there is nothing on this list that can not be obtained should Shout! offer enough money. Even the Godzilla films. After all, they are just a guy in a rubber costume crushing miniature buildings. I really doubt Toho finds it offensive that someone riffed those movies. What they probably did find offensive was that a video company did a run around and release them without their consent via a third party. But you are talking about a company that accepted payment to kill off the original Godzilla so that Tri-Star could release their own Godzilla franchise with no competition. ( The Godzilla in the Toho movies that followed were actually Godzilla's son. And the Tr-Star franchise went no further than one film and a cartoon series. )

Here is what I think will happen. Shout! will release a few more volume sets, closing out the last of the likely films, a few of the unlikleys and perhaps one of the extremely unlikelys. Then the first season release will be the new episodes from this year. And once that is out of the way, they will announce that Season 2 is available in a box set. People will complain that they have to buy a lot of episodes they already own just to get Rocketship XM. But then Shout! will announce that those episodes will be sold via their website as individuals. The same will happen for Season 3 and 4. Then there will be another announcement that Season 1 is available via their website.

MrTorso

#154
February 19, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
I doubt there will be season sets.

They have already lost the rights to episodes they released (Gamera anyone?).

DVD is a dying market. Expecting people to rebuy what they already own doesn't seem to be Shout's process. They have made old volumes available again when they can so that
the people that missed out the first time can get those episodes. They knew that they wouldn't sell like a new volume so they are bare-bones releases.

Leaving expensive films for last was not their process at all. They always mixed and matched expensive vs. inexpensive/public domain to leverage their budgets.
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Edward J Grug III

#155
February 19, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
It's already too niche of a market to try to sell the same episodes again, I can't imagine that happening at all.
FINE

MrTorso

#156
February 19, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: Edward J Grug III on February 19, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
It's already too niche of a market to try to sell the same episodes again, I can't imagine that happening at all.

Exactly.
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stethacantus

#157
February 19, 2017, 05:32:59 PM
Season sets sell a lot better than random volumes. A lot of people refuse to buy best of volumes because they believe complete sets will eventually be sold. There have been a lot of cases where random episodes of a show were sold, only for season sets to come out later, forcing those who bought the original sets to buy episodes they already owned to get the few they were missing. And there have been cases where companies have gone through many phases of random volume releases without completing the series. For example, Beavis and Butt-Head went through two phases of release with random episodes instead of chronological seasons. Both phases never completed the series, and each had episodes the other phase did not, forcing fans to double dip.  I am pretty sure there is an untouched market of MST3K fans who will not buy episodes unless complete season sets are sold.  Another thing to consider is the possibility that the new MST3K will lead to a brand new fanbase who never saw the original episodes, but will later be interested in buying past seasons.

I don't think that Shout! expects anyone to re-buy episodes they already own. Then again, the Manos special edition set they releases would have been marketed to those who already owned the Manos stand alone episode as well as the two disc set with Santa Conquers the Martians. But it appears as if the packaging of the volume sets they are releasing now will allow fans to buy just the episodes they are missing and not entire seasons, then arrange everything by season on their own. The Rhino sets did not allow this. Everything was stuck in the same cardboard box.

I do not think there is any film rights Shout! will not be able to get as long as they are willing to shell out the bucks. It was Rhino who started the ball rolling with the volume sets, and it made good business sense for Shout! to continue with volume sets and save the problem films for last.

I don't buy that DVD and Blu Ray is a dying market. People still want to own a physical copy of a movie or television show they love and can own forever, as opposed to a code for a streaming video they do not know will be available six months from now.  I do think that most DVDs will be slow sellers, which means the market will have to shift to companies willing to warehouse their movies for special orders from stores and Internet sales rather than the current strategy of shipping pressings directly out of the factory to retailers. Or going to the less desirable burn-on-demand model like Warner Archives. But anything with a strong fan base will still sell in large numbers.

Edward J Grug III

#158
February 19, 2017, 06:17:30 PM
I think THESE days people probably do commonly wait for full seasons for most shows, but nobody ever thought this much MST3k was gonna make it to DVD, let alone full seasons.

In 2000, when the first Rhino DVD came out, I don't think full season sets were even that common. I find it very hard to believe anyone assumed a full season was coming down the line and they've been holding out nearly 20 years, but are still the kind of person that buys physical media.

And:

QuoteThere's certainly no denying physical media sales are declining in the U.S. Sales of DVDs and Blu-ray discs fell 12% in 2015 to $6.1 billion, according to the Digital Entertainment Group after an 11% drop in 2014.

Meanwhile, digital revenues rose 18% in 2015.

http://fortune.com/2016/01/08/blu-ray-struggles-in-the-streaming-age/
FINE

MrTorso

#159
February 19, 2017, 07:36:36 PM
Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 05:32:59 PM
Season sets sell a lot better than random volumes. A lot of people refuse to buy best of volumes because they believe complete sets will eventually be sold. There have been a lot of cases where random episodes of a show were sold, only for season sets to come out later, forcing those who bought the original sets to buy episodes they already owned to get the few they were missing. And there have been cases where companies have gone through many phases of random volume releases without completing the series. For example, Beavis and Butt-Head went through two phases of release with random episodes instead of chronological seasons. Both phases never completed the series, and each had episodes the other phase did not, forcing fans to double dip.  I am pretty sure there is an untouched market of MST3K fans who will not buy episodes unless complete season sets are sold.  Another thing to consider is the possibility that the new MST3K will lead to a brand new fanbase who never saw the original episodes, but will later be interested in buying past seasons.

When was the last time a "best of" set has come out VS a season set?  5 years? 10 Years?  X-files Season 1 opened the flood gates for season box sets and that came out 17 years ago. Once that sold like bonkers the studios flooded the market with season sets... 


Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 05:32:59 PM
I don't think that Shout! expects anyone to re-buy episodes they already own. Then again, the Manos special edition set they releases would have been marketed to those who already owned the Manos stand alone episode as well as the two disc set with Santa Conquers the Martians. But it appears as if the packaging of the volume sets they are releasing now will allow fans to buy just the episodes they are missing and not entire seasons, then arrange everything by season on their own. The Rhino sets did not allow this. Everything was stuck in the same cardboard box.

The Manos set was the only one out of 10 stand alone reissues that they marketed to everyone because it was Manos... They have been great at putting out the old Rhino ones and only marketing them to the few people that missed out the first time around. They know that they won't sell as well because a lot of people have them and won't feel the need to buy them. They don't do any bonus features or the mini posters or anything with those. They are totally just putting them out there (since they have the rights) to get the people that didn't buy them the first time around.

Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 05:32:59 PM
I do not think there is any film rights Shout! will not be able to get as long as they are willing to shell out the bucks. It was Rhino who started the ball rolling with the volume sets, and it made good business sense for Shout! to continue with volume sets and save the problem films for last.

Again, saving the most expensive films for "last" makes no business sense at all... There have been tons of posts from the producers that have said they balance the cost of each film for each set.. They spend a bunch of money on one film then make up the costs with PD and cheaper films to fill out the set and what they expect to sell...

Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 05:32:59 PM
I don't buy that DVD and Blu Ray is a dying market. People still want to own a physical copy of a movie or television show they love and can own forever, as opposed to a code for a streaming video they do not know will be available six months from now.  I do think that most DVDs will be slow sellers, which means the market will have to shift to companies willing to warehouse their movies for special orders from stores and Internet sales rather than the current strategy of shipping pressings directly out of the factory to retailers. Or going to the less desirable burn-on-demand model like Warner Archives. But anything with a strong fan base will still sell in large numbers.

Have you been in a store that sells physical media lately?  I am a manger for one of the most preeminent companies in New England that made our bones on shiny discs and I can without a doubt tell you that physical media is in a tail spin of decline..... We are talking double digit declines every single year.... 

How many sets do you think that Shout moves?  The print run for the 20th anniversary set was only 20K. That set had a ton of press and advertising. I would bet that no other set had a higher press run.
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stethacantus

#160
February 19, 2017, 11:06:08 PM Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 11:09:06 PM by stethacantus
Quote from: MrTorso on February 19, 2017, 07:36:36 PMWhen was the last time a "best of" set has come out VS a season set?  5 years? 10 Years?  X-files Season 1 opened the flood gates for season box sets and that came out 17 years ago. Once that sold like bonkers the studios flooded the market with season sets... 

This year episodes of The Carol Burnett Show from the 1960s, a series which is still being released via random episodes rather than season sets.  ( they claim this is due to the expense of licencing the musical numbers on the show. ) Like I said, at one time television series and film series were released via random episodes. The strategy then was to release weak episodes and strong episodes in the same set. Eventually fans began demanding that all series be released in season sets. For example, the last Beavis and Butt-Head dvds released as "Mike Judge Directors Cuts" came out a decade ago. Even then they got mostly negative reviews from buyers for not being season sets. A lot of people refused to buy those volumes, and are still waiting for Paramount to release Beavis & Butt-Head in season sets. I myself bought the first season of The Larry Sanders Show but refused to buy the second volume that came out as a best of compilation of episodes. I ended up waiting over a decade before they released the entire series in one box set. The only reason why I bought MST3K in random volumes was because I knew the licencing of the movies would make it impossible for Rhino to release complete seasons. Otherwise I would have waited for them to release season sets. Who knew that Shout! would come this close to having all the films licenced. 

Quote from: MrTorso on February 19, 2017, 07:36:36 PM
Again, saving the most expensive films for "last" makes no business sense at all... There have been tons of posts from the producers that have said they balance the cost of each film for each set.. They spend a bunch of money on one film then make up the costs with PD and cheaper films to fill out the set and what they expect to sell...

It does make business sense. You wait out the copyright holders that want too much money in hopes that their price eventually comes down. If that does not happen then you pay the inflated price for the licenses and then charge double for the last few volumes, knowing that the fans who own almost the entire series would be willing to pay extra to complete their collection.

Quote from: MrTorso on February 19, 2017, 07:36:36 PMHave you been in a store that sells physical media lately?  I am a manger for one of the most preeminent companies in New England that made our bones on shiny discs and I can without a doubt tell you that physical media is in a tail spin of decline..... We are talking double digit declines every single year.... 

If physical media is dying, then how come DVD, Blu-ray and CD players are still selling? I think this has more to do with people buying their discs from Amazon than in a brick and mortar store where the selection is limited. And that most people are buying second hand items for cheap on eBay to save money. And that despite news of a recovery, we are still in a recession and most people can not afford to buy new releases, but like me wait for the price to drop. I remember back in the 90s I was willing to spend $40 on a laserdisc. Today I don't like paying more than $10 on a DVD or Blu-Ray and usually wait out a new release until the price falls or it goes on sale. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to buy movies, but with me needing to budget my buying now that I am making far less money than I was in the 90s.

Edward J Grug III

#161
February 20, 2017, 12:59:11 AM
Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 11:06:08 PM
If physical media is dying, then how come DVD, Blu-ray and CD players are still selling? I think this has more to do with people buying their discs from Amazon than in a brick and mortar store where the selection is limited. And that most people are buying second hand items for cheap on eBay to save money. And that despite news of a recovery, we are still in a recession and most people can not afford to buy new releases, but like me wait for the price to drop. I remember back in the 90s I was willing to spend $40 on a laserdisc. Today I don't like paying more than $10 on a DVD or Blu-Ray and usually wait out a new release until the price falls or it goes on sale. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to buy movies, but with me needing to budget my buying now that I am making far less money than I was in the 90s.

Because dying is a process. It's not dead yet. Just selling less and making less business sense.

You're using your personal habits to try to explain away hard numbers.
FINE

LucasM

#162
February 20, 2017, 03:36:47 AM Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 01:51:28 PM by LucasM
Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 11:06:08 PM
If physical media is dying, then how come DVD, Blu-ray and CD players are still selling?

Because people want to be able to still play the media they've already bought seems a likely explanation.

Quote from: stethacantus on February 19, 2017, 11:06:08 PM
...And that most people are buying second hand items for cheap on eBay to save money. And that despite news of a recovery, we are still in a recession and most people can not afford to buy new releases, but like me wait for the price to drop. I remember back in the 90s I was willing to spend $40 on a laserdisc. Today I don't like paying more than $10 on a DVD or Blu-Ray and usually wait out a new release until the price falls or it goes on sale.

2nd hand items do not count in "DVD/CD sales" charts for companies, because the companies make nothing off of them.  It was quite a while ago (early or mid-'80s I"m thinking), so I don't know if you were aware of it at the time, but there was a time where record companies were trying HARD to have it made illegal to sell CDs second hand for that very reason: it ate into their already-inflated profits!

Another reason that companies are phasing out physical media is because it is increasingly less profitable for them to sell items.  That is partly because of the very things you mention: so many people are waiting for what films and music they want to drop massively in price.  Less profit = less motive to spend the huge sums on design, manufacture, storage, and shipping to make them available in the first place.  Instead they are focusing more on subscription services (e.g. Netflix, Amazon Video rentals), and digital media to get what income they can.  With digital media, studios have zero overhead, and ultimate control over distribution, including the ability to completely prevent '2nd hand sales' eating into their profits.

Keep in mind also: when was the last time you saw a sale on digital media?  I've never seen or heard of one.  They are always priced at 'new release' prices, despite having no physical item, no packaging, no extras, no resale value (or ability to resell), and can be pulled from circulation on a whim (so if you don't buy it immediately, from them, it may not be available to you at all later, where with physical media there is an aftermarket).  Yet people still buy the stuff.

Don't get me wrong: I detest digital-only media and am irritated with those who sacrifice any permanence of items for momentary convenience (i.e. they buy digital media instead of physical media), because it makes it more difficult for those of us who like physical media to get what we want, and further reduce the chances for obscure things we want ever getting released.  I have only on ONE occasion purchased a digital only item, because I knew that there simply was no chance of it ever being released on Blu-ray.  It was pricey, and it was too highly compressed (only 5 GB for a nearly 2-hour film) for it to be charged as much for as it was (somewhere between $15-17 I think).

Another indication that studios are trying to push harder for digital media over physical media is, for instance, the recent releases by Disney/Marvel.  They have made the digital only releases available two weeks before the physical media releases, to try to get those most eager for the films to buy digital instead of physical.
To dispel some of the misconceptions about head injuries you have developed from watching movies and TV, I wrote this: ...Some Information on Head Injury Effects

Iron Curtain

#163
February 20, 2017, 05:46:22 AM
QuoteKeep in mind also: when was the last time you saw a sale on digital media?  I've never seen or heard of one.  They are always priced at 'new release' prices, despite having no physical item, no packaging, no extras, no resale value (or ability to resell), and can be pulled from circulation on a whim.  Yet people still buy the stuff.

Depends on what medium you're talking about. Maybe not for film and video, but for computer games, sales-including deep discounts reaching 90%-permeate download services such as Steam, Humble and GOG. It's also what I love about Rifftrax: like the Video Game industry, they don't have the cartel-like mentality that dominates Hollywood and the Major Record labels.­­­­­­­­­­­

SJP

#164
February 20, 2017, 06:57:30 AM
I love physical media just because of the fact that going solely to a streaming service like Netflix or Hulu has its issues...but then, so does physical media.  I love having the complete (or near complete) MST3K on DVD because it just looks cool on the shelf, but at the same time, it would be nice if they could be released on other media that isn't already 20 years old (and just as prone to disintegration as anything else), and the digital downloads offer that.

But beyond anything, it doesn't matter to me WHAT media it is presented on in the end...as long as it is presented in the best possible condition it can be, the main thing I hope for is that when I buy it, it is always accessible to me in some fashion.

This is why I love Rifftrax's business model...yes, sometimes it is inconvenient to download it, but the thing is, if I do, I can keep it on my computer (or tablet, or whatever), because my account is still open, and even if they lose the license to SELL the item, I still have access to it.  Same thing with GOG...years ago, I bought the game ObsCure (an all right Resident Evil clone), and while GOG lost the rights to sell it in store, I still can download it whenever I want because they attached it to my account.

But even better, that's why I try to support GOG over Steam (and places like Rifftrax) whenever I can...GOG allows me to buy the games, have them capable of running on modern machines, and should I desire, keep offline copies for myself to hang onto and preserve.

Still, physical media offers the best potential presentation over any streaming possibility these days...but then, even physical media can't help me in some regards.  One of my favorite shows, That Mitchell & Webb Look, was on Netflix for a few years, then they dumped it.  I went to get a DVD copy, but they don't offer a non-PAL version of the show...at all.  Anywhere.  My hopes came up again when they put it up on Hulu, but in less than a year, it was gone again.  But that's the problem...when no streaming service wants it, and it's a foreign release with no localized copy OR digital download available, that's what steams me.  I don't want to have to watch scenes from the show on Youtube or wherever people post it up...I want the rightful people to have my money.  But when I buy it, I want to be able to pick it up and enjoy it, when I want to watch it.  It's the freedom to decide my own viewing habits, not what on watching whatever Adam Sandler movie is currently streaming for the umpteenth time.
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