Batman VS Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Pak-Man]

If I were to overgeneralize, a bit, I'd say DC comics are very much about perfect people in a flawed world. Marvel is about flawed people in a flawed world. But the real world has grown maybe a bit cynical and it's hard for us to accept perfect people. (I dare say that's what Superman Vs. Batman is all about.) So DC is left with two options: Give the cynical world a non-cynical superhero movie (Which probably wouldn't be the disaster that movie studios seem to think it would be) or make the perfect heroes flawed, which irks people who know they're supposed to be better.

Marvel just lucked out that the type of story they specialize in is the type of story the world wants to hear at the exact same time that we started enjoying comic book movies. You don't have to change Spider-Man or Hulk or Iron Man to get the audience to buy into them.

[Henry88]

$783,485,542    
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2015.htm

[Edward J Grug III]

...So DC is left with two options: Give the cynical world a non-cynical superhero movie (Which probably wouldn't be the disaster that movie studios seem to think it would be)...

See also: Captain America

[ScottotD]

...So DC is left with two options: Give the cynical world a non-cynical superhero movie (Which probably wouldn't be the disaster that movie studios seem to think it would be)...

By 'studios' do you mean Warner Bros and maybe Fox, because Marvel seems 100% fine with it

[Edward J Grug III]

...So DC is left with two options: Give the cynical world a non-cynical superhero movie (Which probably wouldn't be the disaster that movie studios seem to think it would be)...

By 'studios' do you mean Warner Bros and maybe Fox, because Marvel seems 100% fine with it

It could certainly be argued that one of the best things about Marvel is how much it's not acting like other studios - And how much the other studios are struggling to recapture what they are doing.

[ScottotD]

...So DC is left with two options: Give the cynical world a non-cynical superhero movie (Which probably wouldn't be the disaster that movie studios seem to think it would be)...

By 'studios' do you mean Warner Bros and maybe Fox, because Marvel seems 100% fine with it

It could certainly be argued that one of the best things about Marvel is how much it's not acting like other studios - And how much the other studios are struggling to recapture what they are doing.

I'd say the X-Men movies aren't really cynical and Deadpool was but in a way that worked 100% with the character so it's really just F4

[RoninFox]

Finally saw it. I feel like there is a decent movie in there, hitting a lot of the notes I wanted it to. Unfortunately it was buried under a hot mess of bullshit.

Loved how they started the movie, seeing the events from Man of Steel from Bruce's perspective. It instantly established a legit reason for Batman to distrust Superman. It shows Batman having the same critique the Internet had of this Superman. That he didn't do enough to prevent death around him.

Then the movie ruins this point by making Batman a hypocritical murderer.

I just couldn't get past this. I can kind of put it out of my mind watching the Burton Batman movies, but it just bothered me more here because it goes directly against the better themes they could have presented. Batman wanting to kill Superman should have been enough of a problem, something he struggled with, and in the end it could have been that deep down need to save people that pushed him toward attack AND kept him from following through, instead of "we're friends now because our mommies' names are the same so let me kill everyone holding yours hostage."

All the action that didn't involve Batman killing was great, liked the bulk of the Doomsday battle, especially Wonder Woman's involvement, but there wasn't enough for me to leave the theater not disappointed and angry.

[Edward J Grug III]

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/5/2/11565932/zack-snyder-justice-league

[ScottotD]

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/5/2/11565932/zack-snyder-justice-league

I fail to understand why they remain so tied to Goyer and Snyder, isn't Nolan supposed to be overseeing this stuff? 

If you've got a plan for 6-7 movies, the first big one is panned and you think it 'under-performed' despite making money surely you look at the big picture and throw money at people like Jon Favreau, Paul Dini, Joss Whedon, Guillermo Del Toro, Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick, Shane Black, etc, etc to write, direct or consult on what you already have invested in and right the ship.

[Edward J Grug III]

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/5/2/11565932/zack-snyder-justice-league

I fail to understand why they remain so tied to Goyer and Snyder, isn't Nolan supposed to be overseeing this stuff? 

He acts in an 'advisory capacity' from my understanding, but i don't really know how much input he has at all. Meanwhile we have seen Snyder and Goyer produce similar dreck plenty of times before plus say outright offensive, misguided and crazy things about comics in interviews constantly. I don't find the Dark Knight trilogy as great as I think most do, but at least I think the problems I have with it don't come from contempt for the source material.

[RoninFox]

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/5/2/11565932/zack-snyder-justice-league

I fail to understand why they remain so tied to Goyer and Snyder, isn't Nolan supposed to be overseeing this stuff? 

He acts in an 'advisory capacity' from my understanding, but i don't really know how much input he has at all. Meanwhile we have seen Snyder and Goyer produce similar dreck plenty of times before plus say outright offensive, misguided and crazy things about comics in interviews constantly. I don't find the Dark Knight trilogy as great as I think most do, but at least I think the problems I have with it don't come from contempt for the source material.

I can tell, if nothing else, Nolan loved The Long Halloween, he borrowed enough from it.

Makes sense I'd like his movies more than a Snyder Batman, just by how much I enjoyed and relished Long Halloween compared to how I slogged through reading DKR.

[Darth Geek]

Makes sense I'd like his movies more than a Snyder Batman, just by how much I enjoyed and relished Long Halloween compared to how I slogged through reading DKR.

I've never read TLH but presumably it has Batman behaving like we normally are used to Batman, not killing, etc. Whereas TDKR was all about Batman behaving OUT OF CHARACTER, which was meaningful because of the history of the character. Something that doesn't apply when it's his first appearance in this particular series of movies.

[Edward J Grug III]

https://twitter.com/BrettRedacted/status/727210004365885442

[Darth Geek]

Instead of bonding over the fact their mothers have the same name, it would have made more sense if this Batman and Superman had bonded over the fact they both kill people.
"You kill people!"
"You kill people!"
"...you want to be friends?"
"YEAH!"
Cut to Batman and Superman skipping, holding hands, 'Happy Together' playing, as they massacre an orphanage.