Batman VS Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Kete]

I didn't make a claim that the reviewers were being unfair, you did.

I'm just joking

I haven't read that much, I'm just going off of star ratings and RT percentages.

[Quirk]

Keep in mind that's the percentage of critics who liked the film, not an average score from them. It may be that none of them would give it a score as low as 30%.

[SJP]

I think to be considered a negative score from a critic, Rotten Tomatoes rates it based on if they give it 2-2.5 stars (depending on four or five star rating system) or less.  I've even seen a couple of critic reviews where they have a rotten next to their review, but the review actually looks positive, so it's not exactly a perfect system.

But critics and audiences don't always have to agree.  I remember a few years ago Steven Soderbergh released that movie Haywire.  If you look at Rotten Tomatoes, critics loved it, saying it was a Soderbergh masterpiece.  Audiences hated the film, and sometimes with a passion.  They called it slow, boring, and predictable.  It could go on that sort of "bandwagon" mentality, as in, Soderbergh can do no wrong, as is piling onto Batman v Superman.  Every other critic hates it, so in order to go to the same parties, some critics who are indifferent or didn't hate it may say it sucks and sucks hard.

Granted, I KNOW people aren't liking the movie, and honestly so...this isn't to discredit it at all.  But peer pressure exists in the critic world, too, and an event like this is sometimes the best way to cry, "Me, too!"

I'm going to see it tonight.  I'm not necessarily looking forward to it, but I'm not going in wanting to crush it into the ground, either.  I never saw Man of Steel, so I won't be able to compare the two.

[Kete]

I never saw Man of Steel, so I won't be able to compare the two.

You really should see Man of Steel before seeing this.  I think the new movie would suffer greatly if you haven't seen the first one.

[Edward J Grug III]

I never saw Man of Steel, so I won't be able to compare the two.

You really should see Man of Steel before seeing this.  I think the new movie would suffer greatly if you haven't seen the first one.

Sure, but SJP will suffer greatly if he has to see them both.

[SJP]

So, went to see it, and my thoughts...

It was not as bad as I had been expecting.  In fact, I would say I was entertained by it.  It could've been I had gone in on incredibly low expectations, hearing that the movie was nothing but dreariness and exposition and wallowing in misery.  I had been expecting internal monologues aplenty, like the beginning and the end of the movie.

Yes, Zack Snyder does need an editor, in the same way that Gore Verbinski does.  The movie didn't have to be two and a half hours long, I can see that.  But I didn't feel like I was being dragged through an endless narrative.  I did like the fights (yes, both of them), I thought Affleck was perfectly acceptable as Batman, I thought Cavill was fine.  Eisenberg didn't even bother me that much (though I totally understand why he would annoy most of the audience; some girl in the back of the mostly empty theater I was in kept yelling for Batman and Superman to "f***ing kill Eisenberg!  Just kill that f***!").  That they shoehorned in as much potential "Justice League" stuff into it as possible to set up another movie didn't bother me at all.  I wasn't even at all affected by the dreary quality of the movie.

I guess what I think it DID do right, in an odd sort of way, is distance itself from the Marvel feel.  I love the Marvel movies, and I love how they have a cheerful quality even in their darkest moments, and I thought that was going to make me hate this film.  It didn't.  For all their attempts over the years to rip each other off, I actually appreciated that Marvel and DC movies have a different feel.  Yeah, it's Superman, and Superman himself is usually not a dreary character, but the storyline fit the plot, at least, even if they didn't go into too much depth.  And Batman?  Well, this is older, gruffer, and more world-weary Batman.  I was just watching the Tim Burton one the other day and looked up trivia...
56 onscreen deaths.  56!  And Batman is responsible for at least a handful of those, directly.  And I still like that movie.  We've come a long way with superhero movies, but damn, how much we owe to Burton kicking things off, as weird and goofy as it is to look back on.
So, yeah, those scenes with Batman didn't even bother me, because it did feel like he's not in the same frame of mind he is in other media.

In the end, I just can't bring myself to hate it.  Yes, it has its problems, and I can see why a lot of people wouldn't like it, but I really don't think of it as the cinematic abomination the press has made it out to be.  I actually was able to enjoy most of it for what it was.  Wonder Woman added a touch of class, as well as a couple of other things:
I still think one of my favorite moments is when Aquaman comes out of the boat with his trident pointed at the camera.  All I can imagine is a riff line of someone saying, "You damn kids get off my lawn!"  Probably not its intention, but still.
Also, I know friends of mine got a big kick out a bunch of the location filming.  The streets of Metropolis were all filmed in Detroit a few blocks from where they work, and watching Ben Affleck running to save people from all the buildings getting 'destroyed' a stone's throw from Comerica Park made them laugh.  That, and that train station that Michael Bay is always filming for the end scene is a popular "not safe to explore" attraction around here.
Speaking of which, maybe that's another reason I liked it.  I know a lot of people say Zack Snyder is a hack, but at least he has a generic understanding of the characters.  I've been dragged along to accompany friends to all four damn Transformers movies, and compared to them, to be dragged to this was a breath of fresh air.

EDIT: Just checked the box office numbers.  Worldwide, it's made $500 mil on a $250 mil budget, so by gross alone and not counting its (probably massive) advertising blitz, it broke even a week after release.  So, it won't be a bomb.  Far from it, it'll probably be decently profitable, even with a revenue drop-off.  So, chances are they won't 'reboot' anything and go ahead with Justice League as planned, but will likely 'retool' to make things more palatable going forward.

[Darth Geek]

I guess what I think it DID do right, in an odd sort of way, is distance itself from the Marvel feel. 

This is a good point. Although I think it has more to do with them hiring Nolan as their overseeing producer.

[Kete]

I guess what I think it DID do right, in an odd sort of way, is distance itself from the Marvel feel. 

This is a good point. Although I think it has more to do with them hiring Nolan as their overseeing producer.

I agree that it seemed different from Marvel in a very good way.  I sincerely hope they continue with their plans, while learning a few lessons from this outing.

[Kete]

I didn't realize that

Spoiler

the suit hanging in the Batcave was Robin's.  I just thought it was one of Batman's

[SJP]

I didn't realize that

Spoiler

the suit hanging in the Batcave was Robin's.  I just thought it was one of Batman's

Yep.  It's the suit Jason Todd was beaten to death by the Joker in.  There was speculation that a flashback of this may have been what was cut to avoid an R rating, but it looks like Snyder essentially said a couple of scenes that were already in the movie were cut back to make them less intense and violent, like the opening shootout and the Doomsday fight.  But who knows what's on the cutting room floor currently?

[Nico]

5/10

[anais.butterfly]

Superhero movies should before all else strive to be entertaining; a fun romp one delves into with whimsy and escapism, not a seat on the pew in the bully pulpit.

No they shouldn't. Movies and stories should make people think about the world they live in.

[ScottotD]

Superhero movies should before all else strive to be entertaining; a fun romp one delves into with whimsy and escapism, not a seat on the pew in the bully pulpit.

No they shouldn't. Movies and stories should make people think about the world they live in.

Yeah, superhero movies aren't really a genre.  Winter Soldier is a conspiracy thriller, Dark Knight was basically a gangster/crime movie, etc, etc

[The Lurker]

Guardians was a comedic space opera.

[jonalame]

Superhero movies should before all else strive to be entertaining; a fun romp one delves into with whimsy and escapism, not a seat on the pew in the bully pulpit.

No they shouldn't. Movies and stories should make people think about the world they live in.

I agree with you and I don't. I don't know whether I just didn't articulate my point clearly or if I came off as hostile because I see what you are saying and I don't argue that you are wrong. Maybe I should have said "I don't think these big ideas have been handled well by this particular movie or it's predecessors and I don't think it is the responsibility of this particular genre to focus on or even address these big ideas and maybe if it hadn't been so grim and convoluted, so tenaciously determined to make certain scenes be accurate still shots of the comic books while mirroring 'Excalibur' and had just had some fun action and some quips, like say, Marvel has done so recently and so successfully, people would have enjoyed themselves when they watched it and come away with some semblance of enjoyment."

Yeah, superhero movies aren't really a genre.  Winter Soldier is a conspiracy thriller, Dark Knight was basically a gangster/crime movie, etc, etc

Guardians was a comedic space opera.

Winter Soldier was a Nick Fury comic with Captain America pasted over Nick Fury. Guardians was Andy from Parks and Rec gets ripped and high fives a raccoon. I get what you guys are saying, but honestly it comes off as condescending. What? because I used a broad stroke term like "superhero movies" to talk about comic book movies in general as compared to BvS you rake me over the coals for semantics? Why is this the thing that we're talking about?                                   What is love?