To the Pagans...Lighten Up a Little

[RobtheBarbarian]

Yeah, but that's pretty much how it feels in America these days. You're either Christian, or you're a godless heathen.

Oh come on. It's not pagans that are having their holiday ornaments removed from retail stores.

[AmandaGal]

It depends on if you're using the literal definition of the word or the Christian and therefore common use definition of the word. 

Actually, Paganism can be defined in so many ways it is a sorta a clumsy term but I don't think Judaism, for example, is Pagan.

[AmandaGal]

Nope, we still get our trees and yule logs

[RobtheBarbarian]

Yule logs. 

If you don't mind me asking, do you do anything for Christmas? The reason I ask is that even though I'm technically an atheist, I still use Christmas as an excuse to get together with all my friends, eat turkey, exchange gifts and stay up late around the fire watching A Christmas Story. It seems like more work to actually ignore Christmas than it is to just have a small party.

[Sharktopus]

Yeah, but that's pretty much how it feels in America these days. You're either Christian, or you're a godless heathen.

Oh come on. It's not pagans that are having their holiday ornaments removed from retail stores.

When the Walmart cashier rang up my jelly beans she asked me how I would be celebrating Easter, or "Resurrection Day," as the sign said. "Oh, nothing special, really." She looked like she was about to drive a stake into my heart.

[RobtheBarbarian]

When the Walmart cashier rang up my jelly beans she asked me how I would be celebrating Easter, or "Resurrection Day," as the sign said. "Oh, nothing special, really." She looked like she was about to drive a stake into my heart.

Of course if an individual is zealous enough she's going to give you the dirty heathen look, but it's far from a prevailing attitude in America. I can find a person who thinks Christians are all violent, bloodthirsty fools but that doesn't mean anything either. Most stores won't even sell Christmas trees anymore - they're "holiday" trees.

[AmandaGal]

Yule logs. 

If you don't mind me asking, do you do anything for Christmas? The reason I ask is that even though I'm technically an atheist, I still use Christmas as an excuse to get together with all my friends, eat turkey, exchange gifts and stay up late around the fire watching A Christmas Story. It seems like more work to actually ignore Christmas than it is to just have a small party.

I come from a very Catholic family so yes, I celebrate all the religious holidays.  I decorate the tree, do a big dinner, buy gifts, etc.  I actually love Christmas and it's my favorite time of year.  I love Christmas music too.  I go to midnight mass on Christmas even.  I went to an Easter mass today.  It ain't no biggie.  I don't mind going to church to share that with the people I love and church can be nice in small doses.

Surprisingly enough, baby Jesus doesn't even cry when I enter the building, lol.  I have an aunt who takes offense to my going to church or celebrating Easter (even though these holidays are mostly secular anyway) because I don't "deserve to."  She can bite me. She's always telling me how I'm not a good Christian and I'm like, "Well, duh..." but she still takes my gifts and eats my food.  Peeps is nutty about such things.

And our walmart says "Easter."  I work at a pharmacy in a grocery store and we were FORCED to decorate for Easter (with bunnies and such, not crucified pictures of Christ).  We also were forced to decorate for Christmas in October which I thought was odd.  Our manager thought it was unprofessional but the district person said decorate the pharmacy or else.

[Sharktopus]

When the Walmart cashier rang up my jelly beans she asked me how I would be celebrating Easter, or "Resurrection Day," as the sign said. "Oh, nothing special, really." She looked like she was about to drive a stake into my heart.

Most stores won't even sell Christmas trees anymore - they're "holiday" trees.

Yeah, but that's more politically correct ass-covering than anything else. Remember, there was also that campaign last year to get people to stop saying "Happy holidays" and "Season's greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas." What would you say the prevailing sentiment behind that was?

It might just be me growing more observant as I've gotten older, but I've noticed a distinct growth in anti-non-Christian attitudes since Allah attacked the World Trade Center.

[AmandaGal]

I agree Shark. It seems like more people are saying screw being PC about everything.

I think anyone who gets offended because someone wishes them a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter is silly.  Of course there's going to be more Christmas stuff in the store than Hanukkah or Yule or whatever the heck.  Christians spend TONS of money.  Everyone else is smart enough not to (just kidding y'all).  If anything, I'd be offended that Christmas does start in October and is emblazoned all over everything, not that it isn't mentioned enough.

I guess because I live in the Bible Belt, wishing people a merry Christmas or happy Easter has never been an issue with any stores here that I recall.

[RobtheBarbarian]

I havn't noticed it as much I guess, at least not without an equal increase in "Watch your tongue, Jesus-boy!". I've noticed the sharp rise in country songs about "Baby Jesus bless America", but not angry mobs in the streets lynching Jews and Muslims.

Yeah, but that's more politically correct ass-covering than anything else. Remember, there was also that campaign last year to get people to stop saying "Happy holidays" and "Season's greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas." What would you say the prevailing sentiment behind that was?

I think the fact that the movement got nowhere at all says more about America than the movement itself. Every country has a group of crazy zealots hiding in swamps throwing rocks at people that are different from them, but to say that America as a whole has gotten more religiously intolerant is a little extreme. The reason there's a Christian substrate in our culture is because America was founded by Christians and run by them for a good long time, not because we all have white hoods in our closets...

[ScottotD]

Christianity is seen as the default religion in most Western countries, the laws are essentially based on their ideals and it's assumed by them that a majority of the population shares their views.  This is the main reason I find equally it hilarious and frustrating when they start pissing and moaning because (to use the less sensitive topics) perhaps not everyone wants to not be able to buy alcohol or that maybe some of the other major religions would like December to not be entirely about their event (which is why I say "happy holidays" because there's Ramadan, Hanukkah, etc during that period).  It just comes across as arrogance to me.   

[RobtheBarbarian]

Christianity is seen as the default religion in most Western countries, the laws are essentially based on their ideals and it's assumed by them that a majority of the population shares their views.  This is the main reason I find equally it hilarious and frustrating when they start pissing and moaning because (to use the less sensitive topics) perhaps not everyone wants to not be able to buy alcohol or that maybe some of the other major religions would like December to not be entirely about their event (which is why I say "happy holidays" because there's Ramadan, Hanukkah, etc during that period).  It just comes across as arrogance to me.  

The difference is that no one shits bricks when a Muslims or a Jew wants to put up decorations relating to their holidays. 76% of Americans declared themselves Christian for a survey in 2001 (down 10% from 1990 in fact: http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm); sometimes being a minority isn't fun because you have to put up with someone else's religious beliefs being more openly practiced than your's. Being in a minority doesn't give you the right to demolish a majority's religious freedom because you don't like looking at their wreaths and trees. Stores will display Christmas items more than others because a) most of America is Christian to some degree and b) people buy more shit for Christmas than they do for Ramadan or Kwanzaa, NOT because Americans are trying to snuff out minority religions. The arrogance here is the notion that the many should shut their mouths and have their holidays quietly indoors because the few don't get a circus of consumerism started on their behalf.

[Sharktopus]

Last year a Seattle rabbi asked that a menorah be displayed along with the Christmas trees at the airport. (A reasonable request.) So what did the airport do? They took down all the Christmas decorations, getting people pissed at the rabbi for no reason. Why does religion have to drive people apart? Ugh.

[AmandaGal]

Totally usurping the thread but who knew a movie as awful and corny as "Wicker Man" could inspire religious debate, thor worship and a discussion about PC behaviors at Christmastime/Christianity in America.

We are a bizarre group to jump from "burning a dude who impregnated some weird lady so the bees will make more honey" to "put Christ back in Christmas"

[ScottotD]

The difference is that no one shits bricks when a Muslims or a Jew wants to put up decorations relating to their holidays.

The arrogance here is the notion that the many should shut their mouths and have their holidays quietly indoors because the few don't get a circus of consumerism started on their behalf.

I've NEVER seen a Ramadan or Hanukkah decoration in my life and no, my belief is that perhaps in tone with their religion Christians could and should enjoy their beliefs as just that without forcing it and the rest of us.