Rifftrax - please stop with the transgender "jokes"

[MontyServo]

I don't really see anything wrong in a group of well meaning individuals stating that they do not care for those jokes,  and stating the reason they do not care for the jokes, and asking that they consider cutting back on the use of those type of jokes.  Just trying to get that dialogue started is not in and of itself a bad thing.

It never hurts to say, here is my opinion of what you are doing and why I think it is hurting my friends or others like them and why I would like you to stop.

The whole "If you don't like it, don't watch it" argument is horse shit.  As paying customers of the product, they are well within their right to point out things they dislike about the product.  Especially when it is presented as constructive criticism and not some sort of faux moral outrage.  It is up to Rifftrax to take these points on board and decide how they want to proceed moving forward.  They can continue on the same course and know that they risk turning off a segment of their fan base, or they can make an effort to curb certain types of jokes (if they agree with the reasoning behind the complaints.)

Everybody else that is chiming in with their opinions is great.  It is good to see that this issue is getting attention and stirring debate.  But ultimately, the only two parties whose opinions matter are the writers of Rifftrax and those who are affected by the "transgender" jokes.  I know that Bill wrote some stuff on his blog about this, but I would still like to see someone from the Rifftrax writing team come into this thread and post comments.  Cause right now we are just talking in circles, it seems.

I stand by my statements and belief that Twitter is retarded.

This I wholeheartedly agree with.  And I checked out Gary Busey on Twitter.  His posts are loopy, but that is to be expected from him.  Couldn't find anything offensive.

[CHF01]

"The whole "If you don't like it, don't watch it" argument is horse shit."

I can't say I agree with that opinion 
I do agree with just about everything else you said though.
So if the majority likes/buys the product as is and only a small group of people don't, which side wins? 

[MontyServo]

"The whole "If you don't like it, don't watch it" argument is horse shit."

I can't say I agree with that opinion 
I do agree with just about everything else you said though.
So if the majority likes the product as is and only a small group of people don't, which side wins? 

Lemme ask you this.  Let's say that the Rifftrax writing team takes all of this into consideration and decides not to use those type of jokes anymore.  Would you even notice?  Would you care that they stopped?  Would the majority that likes the product "as is", even notice the difference?

To me both sides wins, Rifftrax will still be able to bring the funny.

[CHF01]

"The whole "If you don't like it, don't watch it" argument is horse shit."

I can't say I agree with that opinion 
I do agree with just about everything else you said though.
So if the majority likes the product as is and only a small group of people don't, which side wins? 

Lemme ask you this.  Let's say that the Rifftrax writing team takes all of this into consideration and decides not to use those type of jokes anymore.  Would you even notice?  Would you care that they stopped?  Would the majority that likes the product "as is", even notice the difference?

To me both sides wins, Rifftrax will still be able to bring the funny.

I see your point. Personally, a material change like you described wouldn't change my decision to buy or not buy. I could care less one way or the other and I certainly wouldn't notice it. But I'm not intentionally looking/listening to find "faults" in their work either. If this does get removed, it will never EVER be announced publicly. An announcement like that would cause massive issues for them on many fronts. 

[TheUnabeefer]

Agreed, and I really can't say I'd notice and/or mind if they stopped making trans jokes.  Actually from a comedic stand-point, those sorts of jokes really are just old/outdone... so I'm technically in agreement with Artie but for a different reason altogether.

But just for fun... I'm going to keep with my tradition of coming up with a horrible idea so everyone else's seem far better by comparison.

How about Artie and his friends (hereafter known as "the offended party") all decide on one movie they specifically would love to see riffed.  Then Mike and the guys (hereafter known as "the offenders") all riff on it, using nothing but trans jokes; as many as they can fit in, scraping the bottom of the barrel until they can't come up with any more!!

Then the offended party simply won't watch that one movie while the rest of the people (known as "the disinterested") will, and from then on the offenders just won't ever use another trans joke for as long as they shall riff.

That way EVERYONE is happy!!! ....or everyone is pissed off and annoyed.... but I think if everyone is annoyed and pissed off that kind of evens it all out and it's kind of the same thing as everyone being happy, right!?

Hey, I never said it was a good idea.

[goflyblind]

But just for fun... I'm going to keep with my tradition of coming up with a horrible idea so everyone else's seem far better by comparison.

How about Artie and his friends (hereafter known as "the offended party") all decide on one movie they specifically would love to see riffed.  Then Mike and the guys (hereafter known as "the offenders") all riff on it, using nothing but trans jokes; as many as they can fit in, scraping the bottom of the barrel until they can't come up with any more!!

Then the offended party simply won't watch that one movie while the rest of the people (known as "the disinterested") will, and from then on the offenders just won't ever use another trans joke for as long as they shall riff.

my suggestion: schindler's list.

edit: ooo... or american history x!

[D.B. Barnes]

But just for fun... I'm going to keep with my tradition of coming up with a horrible idea so everyone else's seem far better by comparison.

How about Artie and his friends (hereafter known as "the offended party") all decide on one movie they specifically would love to see riffed.  Then Mike and the guys (hereafter known as "the offenders") all riff on it, using nothing but trans jokes; as many as they can fit in, scraping the bottom of the barrel until they can't come up with any more!!

Then the offended party simply won't watch that one movie while the rest of the people (known as "the disinterested") will, and from then on the offenders just won't ever use another trans joke for as long as they shall riff.

"Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?"

[Tripe]

But just for fun... I'm going to keep with my tradition of coming up with a horrible idea so everyone else's seem far better by comparison.

How about Artie and his friends (hereafter known as "the offended party") all decide on one movie they specifically would love to see riffed.  Then Mike and the guys (hereafter known as "the offenders") all riff on it, using nothing but trans jokes; as many as they can fit in, scraping the bottom of the barrel until they can't come up with any more!!

Then the offended party simply won't watch that one movie while the rest of the people (known as "the disinterested") will, and from then on the offenders just won't ever use another trans joke for as long as they shall riff.

my suggestion: schindler's list.

edit: ooo... or american history x!

When Passion of the Christ is still out there unriffed?

[TheUnabeefer]

But just for fun... I'm going to keep with my tradition of coming up with a horrible idea so everyone else's seem far better by comparison.

How about Artie and his friends (hereafter known as "the offended party") all decide on one movie they specifically would love to see riffed.  Then Mike and the guys (hereafter known as "the offenders") all riff on it, using nothing but trans jokes; as many as they can fit in, scraping the bottom of the barrel until they can't come up with any more!!

Then the offended party simply won't watch that one movie while the rest of the people (known as "the disinterested") will, and from then on the offenders just won't ever use another trans joke for as long as they shall riff.

"Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?"

Why is that in quotes??  ... and the answer is no. I sniffed them.

[D.B. Barnes]

"Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?"

Why is that in quotes??

Because it's a quote from a movie. I certainly wouldn't want to give the impression I made it up myself, now, would I? 

[TheUnabeefer]

"Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?"

Why is that in quotes??

Because it's a quote from a movie. I certainly wouldn't want to give the impression I made it up myself, now, would I? 

If you had, it's another thing Twitter is used for.... but we digress.

Will Rifftrax please stop making transgender jokes in their riffs? Thank you.

[Wernski]

I think that fact that this discussion is happening now, 6 years since Rifftrax started, shows how much my friends and I have been willing to put up with.

I'm only giving you credit for five of those years, since you already went in on this last year: http://forum.rifftrax.com/index.php?topic=21586.msg627079
;-)

[MontyServo]

http://billcorbett.tumblr.com/post/26751610596/repeat-offender-me-part-ii

Repeat Offender: ME (part II)

First and foremost: I'm sorry.   I don't want to bury the lede here.

But let me back up for people who don't know what I'm talking about..

A few days ago on Twitter, I posted these two things in quick succession:

1) My son got a Transformer for his 5th birthday and named him "Tranny."

(The above was 100% true. But then in a minute, I followed up with:)

2) I'd MUCH rather have my son playing with a Tranny-the-Transvestite doll than anything associated with Michael Bay.

I got an avalanche of very angry messages immediately after that, saying that the term "tranny" is a super-offensive term to trans people.  And that I was a [many expletives].

Let me admit it upfront:  I had no idea.  I thought the term was a shorthand for more accepted terms — maybe not the most reverent, but certainly not all that offensive.  I assumed it became offensive only in context, when used with malicious and even violent intent — when clearly meant to hurt and belittle.  In those two tweets above, the first seemed like an amusing bit of reportage of what my kid actually said.  In my mind, the second one was mostly a slam on Michael Bay.  But the more I look at the second one, the more I see how it's not that simple.

I was surprised by the reaction.  Some of the stuff coming my way was nasty, but hey, it's the Internet.  The much more important point is: I did a bad job responding.  I apologize.  Even though I stand by my general analysis about the dilemma of offensiveness in comedy in "part one," well... man, a lot of that was disingenuous in its details. I conveniently conflated this incident with a much more minor one on Twitter a few days before (an incident which I might follow up about sometime soon, but really, the comparison was not appropriate, like apples-and-aircraft carriers).  Also, my analysis was shot through with snottiness that I wince at, reading now. That little bunny seems like a real jerk now.


I was puzzled and angry when I wrote it.  (I'm not, anymore.) I'm leaving it up there as an honest record, but I wish I'd taken a few deep breaths first.  Maybe a few days' worth of deep breaths.

Now I have.  And I took this seriously enough to ask some trusted friends about this — friends whose values I admire, whose sense of humanity is pretty unerring, and who I knew would be dead honest with me.  They were, damn it.   My heartfelt thanks to them and everyone else who gave me a gentle lesson in what the hell was going on here.

I also did a lot of research, not only about the nomenclature but about the science (my old friend!) of it all, and about the appalling level of violence against trans people.  I understand a LOT more than I did a week ago.  Still a relative noob, but much, much more informed than a few days back.

I won't use the word again. 

It can be challenging for people in comedy and art to find better ways to do what we do, and avoid hurting people who don't deserve to be hurt.  But that's my problem to solve, not anyone else's.

I want to make people laugh, and occasionally think, and maybe — wow! — both at once.  I want to have fun doing it.  It may always mean being irreverent, skeptical, absurd, even indulging quite a bit of cynicism and sarcasm.  But I never want to depend on continually kicking people who are already down to do what I do.   I'd rather find another line of work entirely.  (Bowling alley attendant comes to mind, since that might have been my last honest job before getting all artsy-fartsy and comedyish.)   

I want to stand on the side of humanity.  I want to be humane, even when being a goddamned wise-ass.  There's no tried and true path through this, but it's really worth trying to find it.  I want to make people laugh, not feel shitty about life.  "Leave the world a better place than you found it."  A twisty task for someone in comedy, but others have shown that its not impossible. 

I'm not sure why I had no idea that term was so red-alert powerful.   The best answers I can muster: it might be generational, and that people 20 years younger than me are much more aware.  Maybe this is like watching MY parents face gay and lesbian issues, or my grandparents fumble their way through racial stuff, saying awful things all the while.  (Though I should say that some of the other feedback I got on my two tweets, from people significantly younger than me, makes me wonder about that.)

An equally likely answer is that I really don't know any trans people — no close friends, no family members that I know of.  The one and only trans person who I knew well was someone at a regular AA meeting I used to attend.  We are both there to recover from addiction, and [no name: anonymous, y'know*] was an inspiration: she'd been physically abused by family for years, was pulling herself out of drug and alcohol addiction, and was doing it with an amazing amount of dignity and cheer, considering what she'd been through.  She was a person vital to helping ME recover.  We no longer live in the same city, and so have lost touch... But the thought of causing her further pain in life breaks my heart. 

In apology, and to honor my friend, I am donating $100.00 to the Anti-Violence Project in New York, where I grew up.

Thank you for your time. 

Bill


[* Re AA: in case people outside the program don't know, "anonymous" only means you don't betray the anonymity of others.  You're allowed to say whatever the hell you want about yourself!  Maybe the subject of a future post for me, but first a whole bunch of my normal goofy junk. Thanks.]

[RVR II]

So if someone uses the word 'Tranny' to describe Transmission issues, that's offensive too??

Cause I see that all the time here on Craigslist postings

Example..

2001 dodge durangop Slt 5.9l v8 magnum. 190,000 miles .Car runs well but has a tranny issue. may need new transmission or Tcc circuit checked. Too complex for me to figure out. would be a great buy for someone who is mechanically inclined. Could be a easier fix than i know. Price is negotiable.willing to trade for car equal to value as well> Lets talk

The Good: 6mos old paint job, leather seat
installed new Pcm and tune up
3rd row seating

The bad: needs tires,tranny hesitates to shift into second at times,needs window regulator front driverside, No CAT, A/c needs service

[MontyServo]

So if someone uses the word 'Tranny' to describe Transmission issues, that's offensive too??

Cause I see that all the time here on Craigslist postings

Example..

2001 dodge durangop Slt 5.9l v8 magnum. 190,000 miles .Car runs well but has a tranny issue. may need new transmission or Tcc circuit checked. Too complex for me to figure out. would be a great buy for someone who is mechanically inclined. Could be a easier fix than i know. Price is negotiable.willing to trade for car equal to value as well> Lets talk

The Good: 6mos old paint job, leather seat
installed new Pcm and tune up
3rd row seating

The bad: needs tires,tranny hesitates to shift into second at times,needs window regulator front driverside, No CAT, A/c needs service

I would think that in that context it would be fine.  He is talking about a car, not a transgender person.