Question about riffs you didn't get.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

i must disagree sharky,  i dont hate half assed.  i really really really hate food.  You may have seen some of my recent attacks against food.  Tacobell, chicken, peanut butter, spinach.  Lord only knows where ill strike next. 

[Sharktopus]

Do we have to do everything half-assed in America these days? We even hate half-assed.

Hey, fuck you, assho... oh, screw it.

Despite popular belief, not all Spanish-speaking individuals in this country are illegal.

But I don't think this IS a "popular belief."  That is a really broad statement to make.  Some vastly ignorant people might think it, yeah, but in my experience it's a blessedly small minority.

I'd like that to be true, but I doubt it. I'm not saying that the majority of Americans immediately think "illegal" when they hear Spanish, but I do believe that enough do to qualify as a popular sentiment. I suppose what really bugs me is the If You Live In America Speak American mentality that seems to have been swelling up ever since the patriotism explosion post 9/11. Not long ago when I saw Hindenberg, the Led Zeppelin tribute band, the lead singer went on a brief "If you wanna live here learn the fuckin' language!" tirade completely out of the blue. Just shut up and do "The Ocean," Fake Robert Plant Dude. And most of the crowd ate it up. Maybe it's me, but I can't help but interpret being that upset by people speaking a different language as evidence of underlying bigotry.

ANYWAY... So. Dick In A Box. Funny stuff. Made me imagine Justin Timberlake's package, which I could do without, but, all in all, funny stuff. Yup yup yup.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

The language thingy is tricky.  I was talking about it to my dad, and he did point out something to me, this isnt the first time we have had a large scale immigration to this country, the difference is it is the first time that not learning english is the mentality of many.  Dad doesnt get angry over it, he was just pointing it out.  I think its the We dont have to learn kinda feeling some are reacting against.  Personally i wouldnt be too surprised if we stopped speaking english in 100 years or so.  I dont think it would bother me either.

[LadyKenobi]

Yeah, what sarc said.  I think what's pissing a lot of people off is the "Unless you make this that or the other thing Spanish-only, YOU'RE A RACIST" mentality.  I wouldn't expect to move to Spain and make a success of myself only speaking English, or expecting everybody around me to change. That, to me, sounds enthnocentric.  Many of my pending in-laws are missionaries and they always take care, out of respect, to adapt to the dress and manners of the nations in which they live. 

I teach many international students from all corners of the world, and the ones who perform exceptionally are those who learn English and integrate with American students by joining clubs, etc.  This doesn't mean that they reject or are ashamed of who they are or let go of the customs of their own culture.  (As a matter of fact, it's an asset to have students from other nations in the class, because then the American ones can learn from their different perspectives and experiences.)  It just means that they realize that they are in a predominently English-speaking culture, and make the most of the opportunity.  I have never come in contact with one single person who has ever said, "Man, you should only let American kids in your school"-- and thank God.  Again, that's not to say there aren't those people out there, but I really don't think it's widespread.

[MSTJedi]

Something occurred to me yesterday when I was listening to a morning radio talk show out of Houston (I live in the Dallas area myself). The immigration thing is a big deal around here because of the Texas/Mexico border and they were talking about how in other countries they force you to do everything in their official language. They thought it was interesting that the U.S. doesn't do that and accommodates to other languages. The underlying sentiment of the discussion was that people should be forced to do things in English. Even though I used to share that thought myself, now that I really think about it, the U.S. is nothing but immigrants. Even the "Native Americans" immigrated from other lands into this continent thousands of years ago, though if anyone has a claim for an "original" language, it'd be them. Of course, there were numerous tribes across the continent, so there wouldn't be *one* language in any case. Sure, the main language has been English for a couple hundred years, but that's only because those in power happened to speak it. As more and more non-European people immigrate to the country, the prevailing culture is bound to change and as someone else said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the majority of people speaking another language in another 2 or 3 hundred years (most likely Spanish if the current trend continues).

Those immigrants who are insular and non-conformist don't help the anti-immigration sentiment, though. On the other hand, if I moved to, say, Quebec and knew that everyone looked down on me because I don't speak French (this is hypothetical), I might be a little too intimidated to integrate. Of course, if I was anticipating a move to another country, I'd try to learn as much about the language and culture of the place as I could. Not that a lot of those moving here have the time and resouces to do such research. All they're trying to do is make things better for their family as best they can . . . Unfortunately for me, a lot of the time looking at both sides of the issue just leads straight to a whole mess of confusion.

[MrTorso]

The language thingy is tricky.  I was talking about it to my dad, and he did point out something to me, this isnt the first time we have had a large scale immigration to this country, the difference is it is the first time that not learning english is the mentality of many.  Dad doesnt get angry over it, he was just pointing it out.  I think its the We dont have to learn kinda feeling some are reacting against.  Personally i wouldnt be too surprised if we stopped speaking english in 100 years or so.  I dont think it would bother me either.

The only thing that ever makes me mad about the language issue is when people get mad at me when I don't speak their language, and that hasn't happened since I left Miami over 10 years ago.  In fact it is has never happened to me anywhere but Miami.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

What language werent you speaking?

[MrTorso]

Spanish.

[Sharktopus]

Yeah, what sarc said.  I think what's pissing a lot of people off is the "Unless you make this that or the other thing Spanish-only, YOU'RE A RACIST" mentality.  I wouldn't expect to move to Spain and make a success of myself only speaking English, or expecting everybody around me to change. That, to me, sounds enthnocentric.  Many of my pending in-laws are missionaries and they always take care, out of respect, to adapt to the dress and manners of the nations in which they live.

I do think Spanish-speaking immigrants in this country should learn English for their own benefit, but what bugs me, and I see this all the time, is when a family is out, at the grocery store for example, speaking Spanish (or any foreign language for that matter) and some cracker nearby rolls their eyes or mutters under their breath about it. You're making us friendly, tolerant whiteys look like jerks.

The immigration thing is a big deal around here because of the Texas/Mexico border and they were talking about how in other countries they force you to do everything in their official language. They thought it was interesting that the U.S. doesn't do that and accommodates to other languages. The underlying sentiment of the discussion was that people should be forced to do things in English. Even though I used to share that thought myself, now that I really think about it, the U.S. is nothing but immigrants. Even the "Native Americans" immigrated from other lands into this continent thousands of years ago, though if anyone has a claim for an "original" language, it'd be them. Of course, there were numerous tribes across the continent, so there wouldn't be *one* language in any case. Sure, the main language has been English for a couple hundred years, but that's only because those in power happened to speak it.

That's the thing. The US doesn't have a national language, and there's a good reason for that. We're a country of immigrants, by immigrants, for immigrants, and if we stop welcoming people, whether it's because they speak a different language or practice a different religion or whatever, a fundamental part of what makes America great dies.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

cracker nearby rolls their eyes or mutters under their breath about it. You're making us friendly, tolerant whiteys look like jerks.

yeah people like that never do well in places like cali. 

That's the thing. The US doesn't have a national language, and there's a good reason for that. We're a country of immigrants, by immigrants, for immigrants, and if we stop welcoming people, whether it's because they speak a different language or practice a different religion or whatever, a fundamental part of what makes America great dies.

[LadyKenobi]

Well, nobody's arguing that we are a nation of immigrants and that others should be made welcome. I think the crux of the issue is that in the past, people have assimilated while contributing the best of their own cultures,and some are sensing a new sense of militancy that demands capitulation of the current culture.  And if, as you say, that small vocal minority really is having a part in "crackers rolling their eyes" at everybody, then they are not helping their own cause.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

i think things liked FORCED political correctness, has a large part of that. 

[MSTJedi]

i think things liked FORCED political correctness, has a large part of that. 

Yeah, personally I'd be extremely happy to see political correctness toned down to a 3. I'd say it's at an 8 or so now. I wish I could say that it couldn't get any worse, but I won't put it past the sue-happy public to ramp it up to an 11 eventually. Tact is one thing - being afraid to say anything on the chance you might get the pants sued off of you is a whole other.

[Teaflax]

Seesm to me that political correctness is alive and well mostly in the minds of those who use it as an excuse to be anti-PC.

[Rattrap007]

I think political correctness has a place in the sense of not using derogatory terms and such.

But as far as the national anthem in Spanish, I feel that is wrong. The national language is English. To me what is being done with immigrants coming in and demanding we adapt to them is the same as if I were to move to Japan or Germany and start demanding everything be adapted for me. You adapt yourself to your new country, not have the country adapt to you. I have no problem with immigration, as long as it is done legally and through the proper channels.