Transformers 2 in summer 2009

[Cosmic Muse]

Couldn't agree more, Midna. And the fact that your two example were from Spielberg, who hired Bay for these, shows just how much he's lost it.

I still haven't lost total faith in Spielberg just yet. I'm just hoping that Indy 5 will be a return to Raiders quality.

Here's my problem with a lot of the complaints about the Transformers movies: Most of the people doing the complaining couldn't string five words together on the subject of what they would have done differently.

I have an entire fanfiction worth of what I'd like to see concerning the Transformers.

[Pak-Man]

But Transformers was all ABOUT Money-grubbing hucksterism. :^)

[AmandaGal]

But Transformers was all ABOUT Money-grubbing hucksterism. :^)

Exactly!  After watching the Bay flick, I ordered the entire series because I wanted to see if I was remembering the transformers correctly (haven't seen it since I was a kid).  II watched all of season 2 last night.  The Bay film is Transformers.  It's all about ridiculous plots and big robots blowing stuff up with Prime teaching everyone a lesson in the end and Megatron getting his ass stomped. 

If anything, Bay's plots make more sense than the series plots.  But, boy, were they ingenious.  I can see why I wanted to buy every toy.  It seems like every week they featured some new robot (who coincidentally was for sale at a wal-mart near you) or made a minor character "major" for an episode or two, wanting to get kids to say "MOM! I WANT [dinobot]."  Brilliant advertising scheme.  Not only did they feature that for one episode, but it continued over a few so you could continue to be reminded you wanted the new toy and whine to your mom about it (or maybe you missed how cool it was last week) and the new bot is even cooler the next episode.

Hasbro was a genius...and Optimus Prime is still my hero.

[mrbasehart]

But Transformers was all ABOUT Money-grubbing hucksterism. :^)

Well it worked!  From the imdb:

Paramount's Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen came within inches -- well, $2.6 million -- of overtaking last year's The Dark Night as the film with the best 5-day opening of all time. According to studio estimates, it grossed $201.2 million versus $203.8 for Warner Bros.' Knight. The figure included estimated results for Sunday, therefore final actual ticket sales, to be released on Monday, could push the total past Knight's record mark

The Transformers sequel performed nearly as impressively overseas, raking in $162 million in 58 countries, including $21.9 million in China, setting a record for an English-language film in that country.

[Doctor Who?]

Just kill me know.

[Darth Geek]

But Transformers was all ABOUT Money-grubbing hucksterism. :^)

Exactly!  After watching the Bay flick, I ordered the entire series because I wanted to see if I was remembering the transformers correctly (haven't seen it since I was a kid).  II watched all of season 2 last night.  The Bay film is Transformers.  It's all about ridiculous plots and big robots blowing stuff up with Prime teaching everyone a lesson in the end and Megatron getting his ass stomped. 

If anything, Bay's plots make more sense than the series plots.  But, boy, were they ingenious.  I can see why I wanted to buy every toy.  It seems like every week they featured some new robot (who coincidentally was for sale at a wal-mart near you) or made a minor character "major" for an episode or two, wanting to get kids to say "MOM! I WANT [dinobot]."  Brilliant advertising scheme.  Not only did they feature that for one episode, but it continued over a few so you could continue to be reminded you wanted the new toy and whine to your mom about it (or maybe you missed how cool it was last week) and the new bot is even cooler the next episode.

Hasbro was a genius...and Optimus Prime is still my hero.

But in the original show, the robots were the primary characters, not the humans.

[AmandaGal]

Cause human toys aren't as cool.  I guess that's the main valid criticism compared to the show.  Sam gets more screen time than Spike ever did. 

I think the second movie did a good job of putting in less humans and more robots, though.

[Darth Geek]

Cause human toys aren't as cool.  I guess that's the main valid criticism compared to the show.  Sam gets more screen time than Spike ever did. 

I think the second movie did a good job of putting in less humans and more robots, though.

Really, I heard there was like an hour of padding with humans in the middle...

Bring on the Rifftrax!

[Pak-Man]

Naw. There were very few Transformerless scenes. Other than about 10 minutes of Sam going to College, there was a Transformer to be found in pretty much every scene.

[BBQ Platypus]

I'm not asking for Shakespeare - frankly, I'd settle for halfway-passable stuff on the level of boilerplate pulp sci-fi.  The cartoon (what little I've seen of it, anyway) rose to that incredibly low standard, so why couldn't this movie?  The direction was a messy, hyperkinetic, ADHD horror.  There wasn't a single human character I liked.  Hell, the robot characters were annoying, too.  The guy they're counting on as a male lead is about as appealing and pleasant as having your testicles held against a belt sander.  The jokes are juvenile, and the very sensibility behind the movie is crass, cynical, and expresses a contempt for the audience that I consider to be an absolute insult to my intelligence.

Had I not been dragged to this movie, I would never in a million years have gone to see it.

And the notion that the people criticizing the movie couldn't think of what they'd do differently is just a thinly-veiled version of the classic non-argument "Let's see YOU do better."  The truth is, I have no idea what a Transformers movie should be like, because I don't know the first thing about Transformers - much like Michael Bay doesn't know the first thing about making a good movie.

But if I were in charge of producing a Transformers film, I'd tell you what I'd do.  I'd put the creative development of the movie in the hands of people who actually like Transformers (unlike Bay, who has openly expressed disdain for the franchise) - people who truly understand and respect the characters, and who have the talent of introducing these characters in a way that is accessible to mainstream audiences.  Failing that, I'd get someone with experience writing quality scripts for movies like this.

For a director, I'd get someone with talent and capable of creating a film that appeals to an earnest sense of childlike wonder (as opposed to a money-and-effects-driven hack like Bay) - you know, someone like Steven Spielberg used to be.  I think Peter Jackson could pull it off.  John Favreau is another guy I think could be trusted with it, as could Gore Verbinski.  Failing that, I'd at least get a guy who can film an action scene competently.  Hell, I'd even settle for McG - say what you will about Terminator Salvation, but at least I could tell what was happening.

In spite of what this movie's defenders would have you think, making a fun summer movie that isn't retarded is actually not that hard.  The fact that I myself couldn't do better doesn't mean that there aren't a number of filmmakers out there who could.  If they can make a good movie out of a goddamned theme park ride with no mythology or history whatsoever, then they can make a good movie out of a long-running and popular franchise that has produced at least passable material in the past - regardless of whether it started as a toy commercial.

I have the special advantage of being able to criticize this film from the perspective of a non-fanboy, and I can tell you quite simply - it SUCKS.  Audiences deserve better than this.  And to say that this is the best Hollywood can do is simply wrongheaded thinking - plain and simple.

[AmandaGal]

I have the special advantage of being able to criticize this film from the perspective of a non-fanboy, and I can tell you quite simply - it SUCKS.  Audiences deserve better than this.  And to say that this is the best Hollywood can do is simply wrongheaded thinking - plain and simple.

Can I tell you how often people laughed and cheered in the theater when I saw it?  Are you sure audiences WANT "better than this"?

I think this forum suffers from being movie snobbish.  Joe Public is not.  He just goes to have a fun time at the movies.  That's not to say they wouldn't enjoy a better movie, but they enjoyed this one too.

[Edward J Grug III]

I have the special advantage of being able to criticize this film from the perspective of a non-fanboy, and I can tell you quite simply - it SUCKS.  Audiences deserve better than this.  And to say that this is the best Hollywood can do is simply wrongheaded thinking - plain and simple.

Can I tell you how often people laughed and cheered in the theater when I saw it?  Are you sure audiences WANT "better than this"?

I think this forum suffers from being movie snobbish.  Joe Public is not.  He just goes to have a fun time at the movies.  That's not to say they wouldn't enjoy a better movie, but they enjoyed this one too.

I'm not movie-snobbish, I really enjoyed the first transformers movie, but I could not believe how much I hated this one.

[Junkyard]

This movie defeated the guy who does "Lil'formers."

[Cosmic Muse]

But Transformers was all ABOUT Money-grubbing hucksterism. :^)

Uh...I don't think Hasbro really needed the cartoon to sell those Transformers toys. Look, the concept alone sold itself pretty well. Robots that turned into cars, planes, dinosaurs, etc. etc. I think that alone was enough to get you to buy 'em as a kid. The cartoon was just the icing on the cake. As far as 80's cartoons go, Transformers was top notch compared to some of the stuff I did watch like Turbo Teen and Hulk Hogan's Rock 'N Wrestling. I dare you to compare an episode of the Toei animated episodes to an episode of both Turbo Teen and Rock 'N Wrestling. I guarantee you will have a better appreciation of the Transformers cartoon when you see the worst the 80's Saturday lineup had to offer. And you try animating a weekly cartoon within a strict time limit when you farm the work out to an Asian animation company like Toei. That's a lot of work that they had to get done with just hand drawn animation you know. Plus let's not forget they had to record the voice tracks, compose the music score as well as edit that all together all in a week's time too. And when you are a poor kid, like I was, the cartoon was all you had to play with in your mind, or haven't you realized that? I never had one Transformer toy as a kid. All I had was my imagination (I was always Megatron and my younger sister was Starscream.) and maybe the kid next door letting us play with his toys when we visited. You guys say G1 fans are whiny? You're starting to sound a little whiny yourselves complaining about a simple cartoon aimed at children.

[wurwolf]

I think this forum suffers from being movie snobbish.  Joe Public is not.  He just goes to have a fun time at the movies.  That's not to say they wouldn't enjoy a better movie, but they enjoyed this one too.

God bless you for saying this, AmandaGal, I could not agree more. This forum definitely has knee-jerk reactions to certain movies and everyone jumps on the bandwagon to pile on the derision and scorn.

I liked both Transformers movies, not for the scintillating dialog nor for the dramatic plot development. It was all fairly ridiculous, really -- we all made fun of the thing on the way home in the car on Friday night. Still -- I had a great time. I went expecting to see a movie about giant robots beating the shit out of each other and that's exactly what I got. Anyone who goes for anything more than that is just fooling themselves.