The Obligatory Special Edition Hate Thread

[Ortega]

Just poking my head in here: 

As the creator of the thread, the only reason i started it in the first place was becuase the DVD cover thread was starting to get derailed by the SE dislike.  That's all well and good, but its kind of a agreed upon rule that we try and keep the thread to cover posts and cover related discussion.  That's all....

[Trumpysgirl]

My two main beefs are the "added" scene with Han and Jabba and the removal of Sebastian Shaw.

The Han/CGI Jabba scene was freakin' ridiculous and embarrassing to watch. Why, in such a technologically advance movie for its time, would they put in a scene that is not only unnecessary but looks completely sloppy? Han stepping on Jabba's "tail" was poorly done and I'm suprised that an anal freak like Lucas let it stay in the release.

And why does Lucas feel he has the right to spit on poor old Sebastian Shaw? The guy did such a great job with the little that he had and now we're forced to see Hayden's ugly mug to remind us of the awful prequels, plus the fact that Luke looks nothing like him.

[mearnest]

Jabba definitely looked like ass.  The sad thing is that they actually improved his appearance from the 1997 to the 2004 version.  My main issue with SE (besides the obvious stuff like Greedo shooting, CGI Jabba, and musical numbers) is that all the extra crap Lucas threw in simply disrupts the flow of the films.  Instead of a simple approach to 'wretched hive of scum and villainy' Mos Eisley, you get what seems like five minutes of robotic wackiness and domesticated dinosaurs.

[Thrifty]

My arguement is based on the idea that miniscule changes do not alter a movie,

Maybe, based on fan reactions, you should open your mind to the concept that the changes discussed are not, in fact, miniscule, even if they only involve a few frames of film.

-dale

Why?  Just because people have an extreme reaction to something doesn't lend it creedence.  Otherwise I might believe that Barack Obama actually is a Muslim or a Communist.

[Thrifty]

I'm not shocked, I just think it's stupid, nitpicky, and two-faced.  Someone shot a second earlier?  Someone boarded a space shuttle?  Get the fuck over it.

You don't, say, observe a Klan march and end up shocked at the racism, but you still despise it.

The caption on your avatar is grammatically incorrect.
-dale

I know.  It's a (sic) thing from the show, Frisky Dingo.  Killface had a bunch of postcards printed up, but he didn't check out the proofs close enough before sending them to the printer, so he sent out 10,000 postcards that had "your" misspelled.

Spoiler

[Thrifty]

Jabba definitely looked like ass.  The sad thing is that they actually improved his appearance from the 1997 to the 2004 version.  My main issue with SE (besides the obvious stuff like Greedo shooting, CGI Jabba, and musical numbers) is that all the extra crap Lucas threw in simply disrupts the flow of the films.  Instead of a simple approach to 'wretched hive of scum and villainy' Mos Eisley, you get what seems like five minutes of robotic wackiness and domesticated dinosaurs.

So did that make it a bad movie?

And did it make Lucas worthy of being treated like he pissed on the American flag or set fire to Whistler's Mother?

[Doctor Who?]

I would like you to tell me what Would have messed up the movie?

You have already said that it would be ok to add CGI and Monster trucks to Citizen Kane so is there any such thing as a bad movie?

Or should we all just watch watchever Hollywood makes and bee happy with it no matter how bad it is.

We have shots that take away character arcs,we have one of the best actors of the 20th century being block out by a CGI ass,we have a pointless scene that that takes away the sense of danger that drives on of our heroes for the first two movies.

I don't see anyone here calling for the death of Lucas all i see are people having some taste and daring to question his choices in the SEs and daring not to like them.

I didn't know freedom of speech excluding questioning Lucas or even just saying we don't like changes he has made to his movies.

If anything this proves that we are fans we are saying that Star wars does belong up there with other classic film and it should be preserved like them.
Lucas is one of the people who spoke out against colorizing and pan and scaning films all we are asking is that his film get treated with the same respect that he wanted other films treated with.

Remember he didn't write or direct two of these films so he is messing with other people's work too,sorry but this is the destruction of a piece of our culture.

Film is America theater it is what will be around after we are gone and Star Wars is the defining fantasy film,it has defined it genre and and should be kept cleaned and preserved in the form it was in when it wow people for the first time.

Let me make this clear since you keep missquoting me  LUCAS CAN MAKE ALL THE CHANGES HE WANTS AS LONG AS HE KEEP THE ORIGINAL CUTS IN GOOD SHAPE AND LETS PEOPLE CHOOSE AND I WILL NOT GIVE A DAMN IF HE MAKE JAR JAR BINKS THE STAR OF ALL THE STAR WARS MOVIES AS LONG AS I CAN WATCH THE VERSION I GREW UP WITH!

Ask yourself where would we been if every work of art was changed just to keep up with the time?  The Answer there would be no such thing as art.

Look The Doctor Who restoration team works with a fraction of the money Lucas has and with old more damaged prints and some times they add CGI to old DW stories but they always include the original cut on the disc restored just as well as the CGI version and guess what I don't care what CGI they add to Doctor who.  If they can do it why does Lucas keep asking like it is impossible?

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Jabba definitely looked like ass.  The sad thing is that they actually improved his appearance from the 1997 to the 2004 version.  My main issue with SE (besides the obvious stuff like Greedo shooting, CGI Jabba, and musical numbers) is that all the extra crap Lucas threw in simply disrupts the flow of the films.  Instead of a simple approach to 'wretched hive of scum and villainy' Mos Eisley, you get what seems like five minutes of robotic wackiness and domesticated dinosaurs.

So did that make it a bad movie?

It depends on how good you thought the origional was:

I've always considered it a good movie.  Changing the pacing made a good movie less good.  

If you happen to think it was a great movie (your favorite), then the changes would piss you off more.

If you think it was a mediocore movie to start with, then the changed stuff doesn't matter.

And did it make Lucas worthy of being treated like he pissed on the American flag or set fire to Whistler's Mother?

The prequels did that....  

Later,
Marty

[Trumpysgirl]

I think the main thing that Lucas fails to realize is that when you make a movie, as soon as that movie is released it's no longer just your movie. It belongs to the public. And because Star Wars was so popular with us, his going back and making all these changes tells us that he still considers it to be his and doesn't care about what we think.

[Thrifty]

I would like you to tell me what Would have messed up the movie?

You have already said that it would be ok to add CGI and Monster trucks to Citizen Kane so is there any such thing as a bad movie?

I said no such thing.  I said that changing Rosebud to a truck is not equivalent to a guy shooting a laser a second earlier.  You missed my meaning.

A forum glitch ate my first draft of that post, but I had once said that changing Rosebud to a bicycle would have been a more fitting analogy.

Or should we all just watch watchever Hollywood makes and bee happy with it no matter how bad it is.

We should take movies as a whole and not villify film makers for mundane details.

We have shots that take away character arcs,we have one of the best actors of the 20th century being block out by a CGI ass,we have a pointless scene that that takes away the sense of danger that drives on of our heroes for the first two movies.

Is that a reference to Harrison Ford disappearing behind an alien or something?  Did some actor who was previously in the movie get completely cut out because of a CGI change?  Or was he still in the next scene and in the movie.

I don't see anyone here calling for the death of Lucas all i see are people having some taste and daring to question his choices in the SEs and daring not to like them.

I didn't know freedom of speech excluding questioning Lucas or even just saying we don't like changes he has made to his movies.

God not the freedom of speech thing again.  Freedom of speech actually only means that you cannot be legally prosecuted for speaking out against the government.  It doesn't mean you can't be castigated for your opinions by private individuals.

If anything this proves that we are fans we are saying that Star wars does belong up there with other classic film and it should be preserved like them.
Lucas is one of the people who spoke out against colorizing and pan and scaning films all we are asking is that his film get treated with the same respect that he wanted other films treated with.

Remember he didn't write or direct two of these films so he is messing with other people's work too,sorry but this is the destruction of a piece of our culture.

Melodramatic much?  It's a damn movie about spaceships.

Film is America theater it is what will be around after we are gone and Star Wars is the defining fantasy film,it has defined it genre and and should be kept cleaned and preserved in the form it was in when it wow people for the first time.

It ALREADY HAS.  He didn't change the plots or the characters or rename Darth Vader to "Dr. Slimy McEvil" or something.  The movie is still there except for a few details that a gaggle of fanboys are up in arms about.

Let me make this clear since you keep missquoting me  LUCAS CAN MAKE ALL THE CHANGES HE WANTS AS LONG AS HE KEEP THE ORIGINAL CUTS IN GOOD SHAPE AND LETS PEOPLE CHOOSE AND I WILL NOT GIVE A DAMN IF HE MAKE JAR JAR BINKS THE STAR OF ALL THE STAR WARS MOVIES AS LONG AS I CAN WATCH THE VERSION I GREW UP WITH!

Why should the studio eat the costs of distributing the same film in two different nearly identical versions just to appease some pissant fanboys who "love" the movie? 

What surprises me is that people could find a copy of the Star Wars Holiday Special on the Internet to use with Rifftrax, but people can't seem to find their beloved original Star Wars cuts.

Ask yourself where would we been if every work of art was changed just to keep up with the time?  The Answer there would be no such thing as art.

Ask yourself where the Mona Lisa would be if she had a chin cleft.  Or if the chair Whistler's Mother was sitting in was brown instead of black.  Changes?  Yes.  Unnecessary?  Yes.  Anything to get bent out of shape over?  No.

Also, where would art be if artists were not allowed to refine their work?

Look The Doctor Who restoration team works with a fraction of the money Lucas has and with old more damaged prints and some times they add CGI to old DW stories but they always include the original cut on the disc restored just as well as the CGI version and guess what I don't care what CGI they add to Doctor who.  If they can do it why does Lucas keep asking like it is impossible?

I don't know why the producers of Doctor Who make that decision.   But nobody who produces anything for the masses is under obligation to jump through hoops to appease a vocal minority.

[Doctor Who?]

We should take movies as a whole and not villify film makers for mundane details.

None of those are 'mundane details" reread all the posts here I don't feel like explaining again how greedo shooting destroys Han's character arc just because you are either trolling or have the IQ of a carrot.

Is that a reference to Harrison Ford disappearing behind an alien or something?  Did some actor who was previously in the movie get completely cut out because of a CGI change?  Or was he still in the next scene and in the movie.

So the amount of damage a change makes to the story and characters is only messered by the amount of screen time it takes up or if an actor changes?

Oh and thanks for giving me the perfect ammo you have said changing an actor is worth getting upset about well in Return of the Jedi Lucas replaced the actor playing Darth Vader.

Melodramatic much?  It's a damn movie about spaceships.

In that case why do you care you don't even like Star Wars and you think anyone who does is a loser so how much more of a loser does that make you.

You are wasting huge chunks of your time fighting with me just because I will not watch the SEs again,sorry but you can't force me to like them.

You can't change my mind so why did you come in here just to attack me?

It ALREADY HAS.  He didn't change the plots or the characters or rename Darth Vader to "Dr. Slimy McEvil" or something.  The movie is still there except for a few details that a gaggle of fanboys are up in arms about.

But surely under your own "logic" renaming Darth Vader would just be a minor detail and not worth getting upset about.

Also would you be so kind as to point me to where I can buy the original cuts restored and in a formant that takes up more then 1/4 of a modern tv screen.

Why should the studio eat the costs of distributing the same film in two different nearly identical versions just to appease some pissant fanboys who "love" the movie?

What surprises me is that people could find a copy of the Star Wars Holiday Special on the Internet to use with Rifftrax, but people can't seem to find their beloved original Star Wars cuts.

Sorry but I didn't ask for a rerelease in theaters and have you seen the number of times movies get released on DvD and Blue Ray.  Take a look in the video section of any store and tell me how many difforant releases are there of movies that are not as popular as Star Wars even the bomb that was David Lynch's Dune as two cuts out on DVD.  Spielburge Lucas' friend put all his cuts of Close Incounters in one box.  It doesn't lose money.

Also Lucas doesn't sue people for posting TSWHS online he does for the movies.  Also how would that solve the problem that the only way to get the original cuts is in a way that look like shit on modern tvs.

Ask yourself where the Mona Lisa would be if she had a chin cleft.  Or if the chair Whistler's Mother was sitting in was brown instead of black.  Changes?  Yes.  Unnecessary?  Yes.  Anything to get bent out of shape over?  No.

I would now if someone came out and made changes to them with a computer and put a CGI ass in front of the Moni Lisa's face.

I don't know why the producers of Doctor Who make that decision.   But nobody who produces anything for the masses is under obligation to jump through hoops to appease a vocal minority.

Because they like their fans and they don't believe in disrespecting other people's work.

you still haven't told me what gives Lucas the right to go in and mess with other people's films when he is against colorising film and you still haven't told me where this magic line is that hasn't been croosed yet when I am as a fan allowed not to watch new CGI version.

Look you are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change your mind that because I don't like the SEs I am a loser who who shouldn't be allowed to make choices on my own about what I spend my money on so just go away.

What kind loser comes into the SE hate thread and starts calling people who don't like the SEs names any way?

Go into the SE love thread and you will not have to read any more of my loser post I am done with you troll.

[Nunyerbiz]

you still haven't told me what gives Lucas the right to go in and mess with other people's films when he is against colorising film

I think the idea that he is messing with "other people's films" is a flawed proposition. He hired people to direct his films. He hired people to turn his story into screenplays. Anyway you want to slice it, they are his films... Sure, other creative people were hired on and made significant contributions... but I don't see how that nullifies Lucas and/or his production company from doing with their properties as they see fit.

Also, I'm willing to give you the notion that Lucas is a hypocrite for dorking around with his movies and complaining when others dork around with theirs... But I don't see how being a hypocrite removes his rights of ownership.

[Thrifty]

We should take movies as a whole and not villify film makers for mundane details.

None of those are 'mundane details" reread all the posts here I don't feel like explaining again how greedo shooting destroys Han's character arc just because you are either trolling or have the IQ of a carrot.

Yeah I GUESS so *rolls eyes*

I've read the arguement about this character being "destroyed" by shooting later.  I guess there is no other character development at all.  I kind of thought that his initially abandoning the rebellion before the strike on the Death Star, but then coming back around to fight was a little more significant.

Is that a reference to Harrison Ford disappearing behind an alien or something?  Did some actor who was previously in the movie get completely cut out because of a CGI change?  Or was he still in the next scene and in the movie.

So the amount of damage a change makes to the story and characters is only messered by the amount of screen time it takes up or if an actor changes?

Messered?  I don't know what you're trying to say here.  Your strawmen have become unintelligible.

What I am saying is that if in part of a scene, an actor is obscured, that is beyond insignificant, especially if that actor is still in the movie.

Oh and thanks for giving me the perfect ammo you have said changing an actor is worth getting upset about well in Return of the Jedi Lucas replaced the actor playing Darth Vader.

During the final scene, to make it more consistent with the rest of the series.

Okay, that's a fair cop.  But does it detract from the story?

Melodramatic much?  It's a damn movie about spaceships.

In that case why do you care you don't even like Star Wars and you think anyone who does is a loser so how much more of a loser does that make you.

I care because a decent man and a decent film director is being villified for making minor changes by nitpicky, two-faced "fans".

You are wasting huge chunks of your time fighting with me just because I will not watch the SEs again,sorry but you can't force me to like them.

You can't change my mind so why did you come in here just to attack me?

Because my time is quite worthless.  I come here to attack you because I can.  Because you villify a man who made a film you allegedly love, and criticize the film over insignificant details.  Because I hate judgemental, nitpicky people.

It ALREADY HAS.  He didn't change the plots or the characters or rename Darth Vader to "Dr. Slimy McEvil" or something.  The movie is still there except for a few details that a gaggle of fanboys are up in arms about.

But surely under your own "logic" renaming Darth Vader would just be a minor detail and not worth getting upset about.

Nope.  Changing the name of a major character would stick out like a sore thumb.  Changing the order of when a guy shoots a laser, and "fans" behaving as if this is the only bit of character development for a major character across a three movie series, is not.  Unless some other anal-retentive nerd pointed it out to you first.

Also would you be so kind as to point me to where I can buy the original cuts restored and in a formant that takes up more then 1/4 of a modern tv screen.

Why should I?  You're the one who insists that one of your own favorite movies sucks.  I found every episode of 80's Canadian children's show You Can't Do That on Television with a little searching.  You do the leg work.

Why should the studio eat the costs of distributing the same film in two different nearly identical versions just to appease some pissant fanboys who "love" the movie?

What surprises me is that people could find a copy of the Star Wars Holiday Special on the Internet to use with Rifftrax, but people can't seem to find their beloved original Star Wars cuts.

Sorry but I didn't ask for a rerelease in theaters and have you seen the number of times movies get released on DvD and Blue Ray.  Take a look in the video section of any store and tell me how many difforant releases are there of movies that are not as popular as Star Wars even the bomb that was David Lynch's Dune as two cuts out on DVD.  Spielburge Lucas' friend put all his cuts of Close Incounters in one box.  It doesn't lose money.

Also Lucas doesn't sue people for posting TSWHS online he does for the movies.  Also how would that solve the problem that the only way to get the original cuts is in a way that look like shit on modern tvs.

Those things still cost money.  I don't get your point.  You seem to imply that because someone else wanted to spend money on an unnecessary product that George Lucas is obliged to because of your obsession.

Ask yourself where the Mona Lisa would be if she had a chin cleft.  Or if the chair Whistler's Mother was sitting in was brown instead of black.  Changes?  Yes.  Unnecessary?  Yes.  Anything to get bent out of shape over?  No.

I would now if someone came out and made changes to them with a computer and put a CGI ass in front of the Moni Lisa's face.

And if nickels could be exchanged for 100 dollar bills, I'd be rich.  You just made another strawman apples to oranges comparison.

Yes, I would be upset if someone put a butt on the Mona Lisa's face, but not if someone put a small chin cleft on it.  Quit shifting the goalposts.

I don't know why the producers of Doctor Who make that decision.   But nobody who produces anything for the masses is under obligation to jump through hoops to appease a vocal minority.

Because they like their fans and they don't believe in disrespecting other people's work.

you still haven't told me what gives Lucas the right to go in and mess with other people's films when he is against colorising film and you still haven't told me where this magic line is that hasn't been croosed yet when I am as a fan allowed not to watch new CGI version.

I dunno, copyright law?

I would say that magic line is not a firm line, but a grey area when the plot starts to change and characters are remade (i.e. renaming Darth Vader with a wacky new name) and deleted.  When that happens, you're reaching the territory

Look you are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change your mind that because I don't like the SEs I am a loser who who shouldn't be allowed to make choices on my own about what I spend my money on so just go away.

What kind loser comes into the SE hate thread and starts calling people who don't like the SEs names any way?

What kind of loser debates with that kind of person?  What kind of person reads those discussions?  We can walk in this kind of circle all day, but it adds nothing to the discussion.

Go into the SE love thread and you will not have to read any more of my loser post I am done with you troll.

Yadda yadda yadda.  You can go into the "GEORGE LUCAS SUCKS EVEN THOUGH HE MADE MY FAVORITE MOVIE EVER!!" forums if you don't like this arguement.  It takes two to tango you know.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

I never knew Lucas was so against colorizing, here's a quote from him:

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them"

Wow, that's amazing, guess he doesn't care about the films other people watched when they were young, only the ones he watched when he was young...

[Doctor Who?]

Also show me where I attacked Lucas.

i didn't.

I said that the changes he made to the Star Wars movies were bad and that is all.

I never called him a name and I never said he was evil,all i did was say that the original cuts were classic films and people should have the right to choose to watch them.

I am full of nothing but praiss for the first three star wars movies and I will let you in on a little secret I can even enjoy the prequels when i am in the right mood. 

All i have said is that I can't stand the SEs and I will not spend money on them and i have given my reason for not liking them over and over.

but my posts get ignored and i am call I losers or worse I am told i have no right to call myself a fan unless I never have a problem  with anything Lucas does that is wrong.

Look I have called Lucas a nice guy I think that if I met him on the street I would like talking to him  and i think he has done amazing things for film and that the original cut of Star Wars are some of the post amazing film and that they have shaped e very movie that has come after them and Lucas helped change film making forever for the better and that is why people need to be able to have the choice to watch those films as they were first seen,in the form that changed film making.

Lucas had to restore them to make the SEs so all the work and money has already been spent all he has to do is release them and let me tell you he would not lose money.