The Obligatory Special Edition Hate Thread

[daltysmilth]

I think the "official" explanation for that scene is that Vader really knew that Luke was his son, but the Emperor had only recently discovered it, and Vader was just acting like he didn't know because he didn't want the Emperor to know that he knew because his plan all along was to recruit Luke to join him and destroy the Emperor.  Either that or Vader didn't want to embarrass the Emperor by saying he already knew something that was patently obvious. 

EMPEROR:  There is little doubt that the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star is the son of Anakin Skywalker.
VADER:  Umm.... yeah, I kinda figured.  I mean, his name is Luke SKYWALKER, and it's not like Skywalker is that common a name. 
EMPEROR:  Well, yeah, but...
VADER:  So you finally caught up with the rest of the galaxy, huh?  Got any other startling "revelations" for me?  Like "hyperspace makes things go fast" or "wookies sure do have a lot of hair"?  Hey, did you know that lightsabers can cut things?  Weird, right?
EMPEROR:  Yeah... well... shut up!

[Doctor Who?]

I think the "official" explanation for that scene is that Vader really knew that Luke was his son, but the Emperor had only recently discovered it, and Vader was just acting like he didn't know because he didn't want the Emperor to know that he knew because his plan all along was to recruit Luke to join him and destroy the Emperor.  Either that or Vader didn't want to embarrass the Emperor by saying he already knew something that was patently obvious. 

EMPEROR:  There is little doubt that the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star is the son of Anakin Skywalker.
VADER:  Umm.... yeah, I kinda figured.  I mean, his name is Luke SKYWALKER, and it's not like Skywalker is that common a name. 
EMPEROR:  Well, yeah, but...
VADER:  So you finally caught up with the rest of the galaxy, huh?  Got any other startling "revelations" for me?  Like "hyperspace makes things go fast" or "wookies sure do have a lot of hair"?  Hey, did you know that lightsabers can cut things?  Weird, right?
EMPEROR:  Yeah... well... shut up!

I want to see the scene in the next Robot Chicken Star Wars episode.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

The real screamer for me is that crap with Vader returning to the SSD.  In the original it's a simple backtracking shot with Vader striding remorselessly forward stating an obviously pissed off "Bring my shuttle" while the corridor behind him fills with stormtroopers.  Next time we see him he's on the ship.  Duh.  We obviously know what happened - it's a movie, not a fecking documentary on orbital insertions.  Simple menace, "simple" scene, perfect scoring, perfect pacing, we know what happened. 

Thank you.

[Tripe]

Hayden being a ghost isn't stupid. HAYDEN is stupid, but it's much stupider to think the Force can make you look like you would have looked if you hadn't had all your limbs cut off, your face scarred, and your hair burnt away. He DID look like Hayden before he sold his soul. He NEVER looked like a middle aged man with hair. So the young Anakin thing makes much more sense.

That is actually a good point, well done.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Seriously.....all points are valid, but let's just step back and calm down.

Maybe this pill would be more appropriate?

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/fda_approves_depressant_drug_for

[RVR II]

Seriously.....all points are valid, but let's just step back and calm down.

Maybe this pill would be more appropriate?

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/fda_approves_depressant_drug_for

I prefer this one myself..

[RoninFox]

Hayden being a ghost isn't stupid. HAYDEN is stupid, but it's much stupider to think the Force can make you look like you would have looked if you hadn't had all your limbs cut off, your face scarred, and your hair burnt away. He DID look like Hayden before he sold his soul. He NEVER looked like a middle aged man with hair. So the young Anakin thing makes much more sense.

That is actually a good point, well done.

What still doesn't make sense for me is why Anakin gets to time travel for his ghost form.  Why should he be the only one getting the spiritual face lift.  Obi Wan and Yoda still look their age.  If Obi Wan looked like Ewan McGregor and Yoda looked like Ms Piggy, then I'd go with you on that.

Seriously though, all three ghosts are appearing to Luke.  Luke never saw young Anakin, so it makes more sense to me that he'd see a healthier version of the face he actually saw under the mask as opposed to a young man he wouldn't recognize at all.

[mearnest]

Seeing Hayden at the end of ROTJ made me really, really want to see ghost Obi Wan and Yoda hog-pile him.

[Tripe]

Hayden being a ghost isn't stupid. HAYDEN is stupid, but it's much stupider to think the Force can make you look like you would have looked if you hadn't had all your limbs cut off, your face scarred, and your hair burnt away. He DID look like Hayden before he sold his soul. He NEVER looked like a middle aged man with hair. So the young Anakin thing makes much more sense.

That is actually a good point, well done.

What still doesn't make sense for me is why Anakin gets to time travel for his ghost form.  Why should he be the only one getting the spiritual face lift.  Obi Wan and Yoda still look their age.  If Obi Wan looked like Ewan McGregor and Yoda looked like Ms Piggy, then I'd go with you on that.

But that is how it should have been, so the real discrepancy in the logic there isn't the inclusion of Hayden so much that it doesn't feature the younger more vital versions of the other two.

Not saying that would have been popular but it would have made more sense.

It's a little like the bit in Mort when Mort separates the old witch from her aged form to see her spirit appearing as a young and beautiful girl. He then asks her "Is that you?" to which she replies "It's who I've always been".

Thanks to the prequels we know that Anakin, rather than being a noble and just man whose fall to the dark side was a great tragedy, was always a whiny little tit who was marked for the dark side more or less from the outset.

[gojikranz]

Hayden being a ghost isn't stupid. HAYDEN is stupid, but it's much stupider to think the Force can make you look like you would have looked if you hadn't had all your limbs cut off, your face scarred, and your hair burnt away. He DID look like Hayden before he sold his soul. He NEVER looked like a middle aged man with hair. So the young Anakin thing makes much more sense.

That is actually a good point, well done.

What still doesn't make sense for me is why Anakin gets to time travel for his ghost form.  Why should he be the only one getting the spiritual face lift.  Obi Wan and Yoda still look their age.  If Obi Wan looked like Ewan McGregor and Yoda looked like Ms Piggy, then I'd go with you on that.

But that is how it should have been, so the real discrepancy in the logic there isn't the inclusion of Hayden so much that it doesn't feature the younger more vital versions of the other two.

Not saying that would have been popular but it would have made more sense.

It's a little like the bit in Mort when Mort separates the old witch from her aged form to see her spirit appearing as a young and beautiful girl. He then asks her "Is that you?" to which she replies "It's who I've always been".

Thanks to the prequels we know that Anakin, rather than being a noble and just man whose fall to the dark side was a great tragedy, was always a whiny little tit who was marked for the dark side more or less from the outset.

but they were still good when they were old.  the ghosty things represent what they were at the time the ceased to exist (i think is what obi says of anakin skywalker when he turned to dark side).  so thats the oldes anakin could be shown, and the others are shown as they were when they died.  makes sense to me.

when i was a ten year old seeing star wars in theater with spiffed up special effects and in widesreen and not frigging vhs quality pictue was  probably hte greatest moment of my life so i cant bring myself to hate the special editions even if i on hindsight dislike a few of the changes(actually im most sad about losing the original songs from ROTJ).  overall though these are the versions i will watch forever unless he decides to restore the originals which he wont.  and i think the dvd changes were all improvements on the special edition no complaints whatsoever there.

[Tripe]

but they were still good when they were old.  the ghosty things represent what they were at the time the ceased to exist (i think is what obi says of anakin skywalker when he turned to dark side).  so thats the oldes anakin could be shown, and the others are shown as they were when they died.  makes sense to me.

Then Anakin should appear as he actually was at that point; scarred and maimed.

See bratpop's fundamental point is correct, the scene at the end works in the non SE version only if the prequels don't exist. Their very existence causes it to become fatally flawed.

Having the actor who plays the younger Anakin is actually a good idea, the trouble is how that younger Anakin is played in the prequels.

Based upon the evidence in the original three movies we should have expected Anakin, at the time of his fall, to be like Sebastian Shaw (not actually Sebastian Shaw obviously) because then his back story would be played out the way the original trilogy described it. What i mean is he should have been played as a grown man, not a petulant whiner.

So the problem is, as we tend to find, Lucas' inability to maintain any sort of narrative consistency, not in the fact that the replacement ghost is Hayden per se.

[Ortega]

I've said it before, if Anakin was portrayed by a more talented actor, people wouldn't have had the big old bitchfest people did when the DVD came out.  Besides, people were bemoaning the SE before the DVD versions came out, so the nerds should have been surprised that Lucas would have that one last trump card to twist the knife even further.....

[ScottotD]

Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor are both really talented and thier performances aren't much better than Haydens.

[Dankbuds]

Natlie Portman is possibly the worst thing about the prequels.  I'd rather watch Jake Lloyd than her stiff performance.

I think Natalie Portman is super hot... I get pretty "Stiff" watching all her performances.

[Tripe]

Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor are both really talented and thier performances aren't much better than Haydens.

Yeah I think that's it, it would be better phrased thus:

I've said it before, if Anakin was a better performance by Hayden, and better written in the first place, people wouldn't have had the big old bitchfest people did when the DVD came out. 

Because while this is hard for many to believe, Hayden can actually turn in a good performance. I've only seen it the once but it was very good.