I'm getting a little tired of all these recent movies.

[dangfish]

[/]

                                                                       t

[bratpop]

If being in the majority equates with correctness

I never implied that. It's just a reality check. If you're not in the majority, and in fact are a minority of one, you're screwed. It's only personal if you think the universe hates you.

the vast majority of people here seem to think all of the Rifftrax releases are all equally funny.

Well I don't agree with that. I have yet to see any ratings thread where at least one person didn't love the riff. The problem is that no one here is qualified to quantify enjoyment. Possibly no one on planet earth. I can't tell you HOW funny something is. I could tell you how many times I laughed, but not how many times I didn't. There's no scientific formula for it. Either you think you enjoyed it or you didn't. Honestly, I'm not sure how Rifftrax would be professionally reviewed. Any other form of comedy needs to stand alone. A movie still has to be a good movie and work as a story. Stand-up comedy is extremely subjective. The audience will tell you they think it's funny. Then if you say it's not, there's already a conflict. Rifftrax is even more subjective, because it affects the movie and vice versa. It's also not terribly consistent. I'm told they write the scripts in fourths, so you might like the Connor quarter but not like the Mike quarter, and it might be dull at the beginning or dull at the end. Different people might like different riffers. There's no way for us to tell you whether you'll like it or not. But you seem to know that you won't, so I don't see the problem. If you don't like Rifftrax now, don't buy it now. Sign up for the mailing list and wait for them to riff "My Science Project." It's only your problem until there's more people like you costing Rifftrax money and then it becomes their problem.

[dalem]

My entire point has been: MOST OF THE RIFFTRAX RELEASED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS ARE NOT FUNNY.  I thought I had made that abundantly clear. 


Apparently not.

It's clear, but it's still subjective.  You're making your point, but it's not going to hold up in the face of sales figures.

Apparently, I spent so much time worrying about Rifftrax that I lost my sense of humor.

Here's the actual sequence of events.

1.  Doc Steve thinks a lot of recent Rifftrax suck.  He doesn't laugh once at Ocean's 11, The Bourne Identity, Cloverfield, or Daredevil.

2.  Doc Steve notcies what those movies have in common.

3.  Since Doc Steve can't get his money back for a defective product in this case (to my mind they were defective), he foolishly thinks that posting here might accomplish something. 

4.  Other than responses from a few fans who are already frustrated, people proceed to pee in my ear and tell me it's raining.  Or worse, tell me to take a time out until I will buy again.  WTF ?!?!?!

5.  THEN, Doc Steve gets frustrated.

Are we all on the same page yet?

James of LinHood was right.  It's like beating your head against a wall. 

6. Many people, including perhaps those who are involved with creating the product, understand what Doc Steve is saying.

7. Many people, including perhaps those who are involved with creating the product, disagree, in whole or in part, with what Doc Steve is saying.

-dale

[dalem]

Star Wars and E.T. would surely sell well, just for example.

In your opinion.  In my opinion too, for what that's worth, but how can you make that claim as a fact?

-dale

[bratpop]

I guess if they sold well.

[MSTJedi]

The only problem with Star Wars is whether to use the original theatrical or special edition to riff on. Of course, there's a lot more to riff on with the SE.

[bratpop]

Yeah, so does this guy know there's a Star Wars iRiff?

[Doc Steve]

Yeah, so does this guy know there's a Star Wars iRiff?

Yes.  I was using Star Wars as an example of an "older" film that would probably sell well.  I never claimed that as a "fact," either.  I was essentially asking if older movies that virtually everyone owns on DVD were stil out of the question.  I own Star Wars and E.T. for example, while I admit that even I don't own the Lynch version of Dune.  (I do own the Sci-Fi Channel versions and the books.) 

[Doc Steve]

My entire point has been: MOST OF THE RIFFTRAX RELEASED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS ARE NOT FUNNY.  I thought I had made that abundantly clear. 


Apparently not.

It's clear, but it's still subjective.  You're making your point, but it's not going to hold up in the face of sales figures.

Apparently, I spent so much time worrying about Rifftrax that I lost my sense of humor.

Here's the actual sequence of events.

1.  Doc Steve thinks a lot of recent Rifftrax suck.  He doesn't laugh once at Ocean's 11, The Bourne Identity, Cloverfield, or Daredevil.

2.  Doc Steve notcies what those movies have in common.

3.  Since Doc Steve can't get his money back for a defective product in this case (to my mind they were defective), he foolishly thinks that posting here might accomplish something. 

4.  Other than responses from a few fans who are already frustrated, people proceed to pee in my ear and tell me it's raining.  Or worse, tell me to take a time out until I will buy again.  WTF ?!?!?!

5.  THEN, Doc Steve gets frustrated.

Are we all on the same page yet?

James of LinHood was right.  It's like beating your head against a wall. 

6. Many people, including perhaps those who are involved with creating the product, understand what Doc Steve is saying.

7. Many people, including perhaps those who are involved with creating the product, disagree, in whole or in part, with what Doc Steve is saying.

-dale

dalem,

I guarantee you that it is 100% fact that I am frustrated. 

[Doc Steve]

The only problem with Star Wars is whether to use the original theatrical or special edition to riff on. Of course, there's a lot more to riff on with the SE.

It would have to be the SE.  The Jabba scene alone deserves a Rifftrax. 

Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace:  Jabba is sedentary and doesn't appear able to move much.

Star Wars IV: A New Hope SE:  Jabba is capable of running around a docking bay.

Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi:  Jabba is almost completely immobile.

Apparently, Jabba does more fad dieting than Oprah. 

[bratpop]

The problem is that Hollywood keeps releasing too many cheesy movies for them to have a chance to dip back into previous decades. The only movie I think they've done this year that didn't have it coming was Iron Man. But when they don't do an obvious choice, like Superman Returns, they hear complaints about it. So it's best to cover the bases. I think the reason they did The Sixth Sense was so they could prepare for The Happening. They'll probably do Signs at some point, and maybe The Village, and then Unbreakable if it's not too boring. They probably did Memento so they could do The Prestige and Batman Begins, all cheesy movies to some extent. And they do a lot of shorts, not to mention Rifftrax Presents, and guest choices like Jurassic Park and Ocean's Eleven. I doubt they ever had time to sit down and say, "Star Wars? Out of the question!!" They're probably a little burned out on all the Star Wars from last year. And there's still the horrible Clone Wars movie to do. If ever God graces us with a lull in cheesy movies released by Hollywood, we'll definately see them do some older "classics." But until then, some movies just have it coming!

[Conor]

The only problem with Star Wars is whether to use the original theatrical or special edition to riff on. Of course, there's a lot more to riff on with the SE.

It would have to be the SE.  The Jabba scene alone deserves a Rifftrax. 

Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace:  Jabba is sedentary and doesn't appear able to move much.

Star Wars IV: A New Hope SE:  Jabba is capable of running around a docking bay.

Star Wars VI: Return of the Jedi:  Jabba is almost completely immobile.

Apparently, Jabba does more fad dieting than Oprah. 

Yeah, I've said a few times that it will have to be the SE because they are the versions that everyone who owns the DVDs has.  It's not really a question, since anyone who bought the DVDs when they first came out only has the SE. 

[anais.jude]

i just bought dvds that have the SE and the regulars. See, the OT are my thanksgiving movies.  ROCK IT YOU TURKEYS!

[James of LinHood]

ROCK IT YOU TURKEYS!

Can you jive mothas dig it?

[Doc Steve]

The problem is that Hollywood keeps releasing too many cheesy movies for them to have a chance to dip back into previous decades. The only movie I think they've done this year that didn't have it coming was Iron Man. But when they don't do an obvious choice, like Superman Returns, they hear complaints about it. So it's best to cover the bases. I think the reason they did The Sixth Sense was so they could prepare for The Happening. They'll probably do Signs at some point, and maybe The Village, and then Unbreakable if it's not too boring. They probably did Memento so they could do The Prestige and Batman Begins, all cheesy movies to some extent. And they do a lot of shorts, not to mention Rifftrax Presents, and guest choices like Jurassic Park and Ocean's Eleven. I doubt they ever had time to sit down and say, "Star Wars? Out of the question!!" They're probably a little burned out on all the Star Wars from last year. And there's still the horrible Clone Wars movie to do. If ever God graces us with a lull in cheesy movies released by Hollywood, we'll definately see them do some older "classics." But until then, some movies just have it coming!

Here is my specific problem with this approach.  Please hear me out...

MST3K did genuinely bad movies.  With the exception of Marooned (Space Travelers), you would have been hard-pressed to find anyone to defend those films.   Eventually, they ended up doing most of the universally derided films of the '50s and '60s.  (See the books by the Brothers Medved like Golden Turkeys, etc.)   Some of this was deliberate; some of this was because these types of films tend to lapse into the public domain. 

Rifftrax does bad movies.  Other than the original Alien, they really haven't done a good movie.  (Raiders of the Lost Ark would probably qualify also; I haven't seen Iron Man.)  Some of them have been genuinely awful blokbusters that were roundly panned by the critics, like The Day After Tomorrow and Star Trek V.  The Happening, Spider-Man 3, and Cloverfield are all bad movies, in my honest opinion.  The difference between Cloverfield and Manos isn't just a difference of magnitude (i.e. "how bad").  The bad summer blockbusters still make money. by and large.  They have their defenders. 

Why?  I think it is because of what made the movies bad.  A bad big-budget popcorn movie like Pirates of the Caribbean was still competently filmed, lit, art-directed, etc.  All of its faults aside, you can see the money on the screen.  What makes these movies bad is that so much money is tied up in their production, that they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator.  Every decision is made by committee.  Endings are altered to suit test audiences or focus groups.  Entire scenes exist only for product placement.  These types of movies are starting to seem identical to me.  For example, I have a very difficult time remembering which Pirates of the Caribbean flick is which. 

In constrast a MST3K-type movie is usually the product of a single creative [sic] mind.  For example, Ed Wood had an artistic vision.  It was a deeply neurotic, icky vision, but an artistic vision nonetheless.  McMovie does not have this trait; McMovie is content to be the cinematic equivalent of white bread enriched with SFX.  Another way to put it would be that the problems with movies like Spider-Man 3 are primarily problems of execution.  That is, it needed a better script, better actors, etc.  The problems with MST3K-type movies are more profound.  Nothing is a given; even competent filmmaking is the exception.   Most MST3K movies are deeply flawed in concept, and they went downhill from there. 

In my mind, it isn't how bad the movie is per se, but what the movie gives you to riff.  The cookie-cutter summer blockbusters are almost all bad, but they aren't all necessarily good riff fodder, either.   

Just my $0.02.  I thought some people might appreciate an insight into why some of us get so passionate on this issue.