300

[Sharktopus]

I'm as guilty of this as any of us, but maybe we should wait and actually see the movie before we decide how good or bad it is?

Sin City was remarkably stupid but I'll take it over Gladiator any day. Blech.

[Kiiml]

Again, when I had a peek in the book itself, (I was surprised how short it was) I saw a lot of the same Frank-Miller-esqe characters and action inside it. In the comic book, Frank Miller illustrates something historical that won't appear on film: that Spartan soldiers sometimes fought with their genitals displayed. This might have historical accuracy, but as you can see from the trailers, the director knew it wouldn't fly with the mpaa.

"Tonight we dine in hell" didn't bother me that much. I did like this line, though.

"Our arrows will blot out the sun!"

     "Then we shall fight in the shade."


In the interest of historical accuracy, I can't remember Persians (or anybody) being able to "domesticate" Rhinos into steeds, but I think as long as the movie has the uplifting courage-inspiring feel the trailers portray, I won't really mind the rhinos. From what I saw of the book, much of it details the training a spartan boy has to go through to become a warrior. Correct me if I'm wrong, but spartan soldiers (male and female) began training at age 8, didn't they?

[Sharktopus]

Again, when I had a peek in the book itself, (I was surprised how short it was) I saw a lot of the same Frank-Miller-esqe characters and action inside it. In the comic book, Frank Miller illustrates something historical that won't appear on film: that Spartan soldiers sometimes fought with their genitals displayed. This might have historical accuracy, but as you can see from the trailers, the director knew it wouldn't fly with the mpaa.

"Tonight we dine in hell" didn't bother me that much. I did like this line, though.

"Our arrows will blot out the sun!"

      "Then we shall fight in the shade."


In the interest of historical accuracy, I can't remember Persians (or anybody) being able to "domesticate" Rhinos into steeds, but I think as long as the movie has the uplifting courage-inspiring feel the trailers portray, I won't really mind the rhinos. From what I saw of the book, much of it details the training a spartan boy has to go through to become a warrior. Correct me if I'm wrong, but spartan soldiers (male and female) began training at age 8, didn't they?

As I understand it, the movie (and Frank Miller's graphic novel) shows a small group of Spartans courageously fighting an overwhelming army of Persians at Thermopylae. This really happened. As a history buff myself, I think it's cool that people will get to see a movie about that. As long as the Spartans don't have machine guns or something equally ludicrous, I won't be bothered about historical inaccuracy. But as a comic book fan, I will be bothered if it's an overblown pile of crap. But I'll reserve that judgment for after I see the movie, not just 3 minutes worth of trailer.

[Sharktopus]

When I saw the trailer, I turned to TorgosPizza and was like.... "The Greeks...didn't have a 'hell.'" Cuz you know - Hades and Hell are two WAY different ideas of the underworld. Greek mythology and Christian Dogma really differentiate the purpose of both places. So when I saw the trailer I was like - "wait a tick!"

The Greeks did have a Hell - it was a region of Hades called Tartarus, where sinners were tormented for their sins, Sysyphus and his rock, for example. But if the Spartan yelled "Tonight we dine in Tartarus," most of the audience would just be confused. I suppose he could have said Hades and people would get that, but hades has become a softened version of hell in English, so it would weaken the emotion of his statement. It would come across like yelling "Eat doo-doo!" or something.

Also, the Spartans didn't speak English either, so the whole movie's wrong. 

[SmilinJackRoss]

Now...about your other points: you make a good one. It could be a "one-liner" movie. Why can't it be? Well, it can, obviously.  I just get a bit bent out of shape when it's done with Thermopylae, because I study archaic Greece. I teach Herodotus.  And then I have to fight stereotypes like this ridiculous movie when I teach the scenes.  I've had to undo damage from Gladiator for years, and it just annoys me that people can't even remotely get things right. 

Essentially, my problem is them using "my" source material. Yes, I didn't write it, but it's my vocation, and it irks me to see them doing what they're doing all over it.  Frank Miller and his little comic book were a blip on the radar; there'd be one nerd in a dozen years who might know it.  But this will get a much wider dissemination, and do that much more damage.

Yes, there's an argument that these kinds of things "bring in" new students; problem is, they're going to be SORELY disappointed and lose interest in the actual material when it isn't wham-bam, gee-whiz, grab crotch, slow-motion music video time.  So I'd frankly rather not have the kinds of students that this might potentially attract.

In the end, if I had my druthers, I'd want Hollywood to simply stay away from the stuff. So I'd love to see this fail, and thus have them stop making really bad movies about the ancient world.

Your argument makes much more sense to me now.  I agree that there's a group of people who will take some hollywood movies for fact, and that's a shame. But since 300 looks to be extremely fantastical, I think that there's less of a chance of people seriously taking it as fact.  I think that the films that are more realistic, but historically inaccurate are the dangerous ones (like Gladiator, or movies that make conclusions about history that have never been proven, or are wild theories.  From Hell and JFK come to mind.)

By the way, have you seen The 300 Spartans?  I haven't seen it, but if anyone has, I'm curious if it is historically accurate, or at least close....

[J-Proof]

When I saw the trailer, I turned to TorgosPizza and was like.... "The Greeks...didn't have a 'hell.'" Cuz you know - Hades and Hell are two WAY different ideas of the underworld. Greek mythology and Christian Dogma really differentiate the purpose of both places. So when I saw the trailer I was like - "wait a tick!"

The Greeks did have a Hell - it was a region of Hades called Tartarus, where sinners were tormented for their sins, Sysyphus and his rock, for example. But if the Spartan yelled "Tonight we dine in Tartarus," most of the audience would just be confused. I suppose he could have said Hades and people would get that, but hades has become a softened version of hell in English, so it would weaken the emotion of his statement. It would come across like yelling "Eat doo-doo!" or something.

Also, the Spartans didn't speak English either, so the whole movie's wrong. 

Lol! I get the English part - very snakry (yeah...that's a word...google that sh*t).

I mean - saying "tonight we dine in Hell" versus "tonight we feast in Hades" is totally different from each other.

[Shinigami]

I should point out that From Hell was originally a comic book as well.

[Pak-Man]

Gonna have to call you on that. SNAKRY isn't a word. :^)

[BathTub]

I should point out that From Hell was originally a comic book as well.

Yes but that is a different guy entirely, Alan Moore, the scary man behind, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Lost Girls, etc etc...

[SmilinJackRoss]

So if you trace the progression, it goes something like:

"Actual" Battle of Thermopylae => Herodotus' depiction of it => The 300 Spartans => "300" => 300.

It makes me curious how much research Frank Miller did for his graphic novel.  The movie might have inspired him to write the novel, but I sure hope he did a little more digging while writing it.

[Kiiml]

if the exposed genitalia thing is historically accurate, I guess he went pretty deep with his research.

[Sharktopus]

One interesting bit about the 300 Spartans is that I have heard (and this is totally unsubstantiated, so take it as such) that Miller watched this and it inspired him to write the comic in the first place.

So if you trace the progression, it goes something like:

"Actual" Battle of Thermopylae => Herodotus' depiction of it => The 300 Spartans => "300" => 300.

I believe that's true. Miller saw the 300 Spartans movie, was fascinated by the batttle of Thermopylae, and decided to make a graphic novel of it. From what I know about Frank, I'm sure he did a fair amount of research, then simply used what he felt would work for the story, and ignored what wouldn't. Which is fine by me, because he never claims it to be any more than just a fun story, based on real events.

if the exposed genitalia thing is historically accurate, I guess he went pretty deep with his research.

Or it's just Miller embracing his more Freudian tendencies. Ever seen/read an interview with him? He's quite the horny manchild.

[Variety of Cells]

I tried to look more into the exposed genitalia question, but I chose the wrong place.  I figured some one on the IMDB boards might know, and my mind was almost torn apart by hateful gaybashing and hateful gaysuporting.  But I was sucked into the never ending threads in hopes that some sort of conclusion on weather or not homosexuality was accepted by Greeks would be met.  But eventually I realized that no conclusions will ever be reached on IMDB, and it was just an eternal spiral of meaningless hate and superiority complexes. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's good to be home. 

[ScottotD]

This movie looks like just about everything wrong with movies today,

Damn kids nowadays with their rap music, pong and diet soda.  Stay off my lawn!

[davo]

i'm surprised you haters don't like this because it will get people more interested in the real history.  i know the "rome" series on hbo has gotten me really interested in ancient roman history. i didn't care at all before seeing that series.

This movie looks like just about everything wrong with movies today,

Damn kids nowadays with their rap music, pong and diet soda.  Stay off my lawn!

no kidding.  i'm looking forward to this movie. i like gladiator & sin city just fine.   i know they're fiction.

i did, in fact, hate kingdom of heaven.  when Thomas Madden (who wrote "
The New Concise History of the Crusades ") was asked if it was historically accurate, he said, "it's a hollywood producer's vision of what is historically accurate".  when making a serious historical movie about a real historical conflict, at least get your facts right.

also, the garbage in the da vinci code which dan brown says is true, which isn't. that stuff really annoys me.