What have we learned?

[killdozer]

I learned that this is the most homoerotic movie EVER.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

That movie was gayer than a Fire Island mixer.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[deathstalker]

I have not yet heard the rifftrax, but we're scheduling a viewing party next week. I did, however see '300' with my best friend and we agreed that it was pure comedy gold. Here's what '300' taught me about ancient Greek history:

- The Persian Empire was ruled by an eight-foot-tall Brazilian transvestite with numerous body piercings.
- The Persian Empire extended from Africa to Japan, and included big burly black guys as well as samurai-ninjas
- The Persians fought with armored war rhinos, giant elephants, ogres with filed teeth and gigantic lobster-clawed mutants.
- The Spartans didn't wear armor, only armored jockstraps, because Persian arrows simply bounced off their taut, bronzed pecs and rippling abs. And if a Persian arrow did occasionally strike a Spartan, all he had to do was flex and the arrow popped right out.
- The Spartans yelled a lot and spoke at all times as if they were sitting, straining, on the toilet.
- The Spartans murdered babies who were "imperfect" and subjected their children to almost unbelievable hardship and abuse, but we're still expected to sympathize with them.
- The Spartans didn't indulge in the same romantic tendencies as the other ancient Greeks because Spartan chicks were SMOKIN' HAWT!!! They weren't gay or anything... They were awesomely cool warrior guys with six-pack abs who walked around naked all the time and worked out and looked all buff and ripped and stuff, and mostly hung out with other guys, but they WEREN'T GAY!! NO WAY! I'M NOT... I mean... THE SPARTANS WEREN'T GAY OR ANYTHING! SO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT, OKAY???
- Ancient Greece had no colors to speak of but was instead tinted bronze, blue or red, depending upon the mood of its inhabitants.
- The Ancient Spartans, far from being a dour and stoic people, were actually a laff riot.
- And did I mention that the ancient Spartans WEREN'T GAY, I don't care how GAY THEY LOOK IN THE MOVIE!!!

And that's only a small taste. Watching '300' for historical accuracy is like watching 'Armageddon' for the astrophysics and good acting. It was freakin' hilarious, and I was totally baffled when it proved to be a box-office hit. The 1961 flick "The 300 Spartans" provides a far more correct picture of what actually happened, despite its wacky sword-and-sandal dialog and goofy costumes.

(And I also don't want to turn this thread into a sober discussion of ancient history, but there's a generally accepted version of what happened at Thermopylae, mostly from Herodotus, but from other sources as well, and it bears about as much resemblance to what happens in '300' as 'Battlefield Earth' bears to 'Citizen Kane.' But I digress; '300' is a hoot, and the boys can only make it funnier.)

We're looking forward to this Rifftrax like no other... I suspect that the boys are gonna knock this one out of the park, and do you know why?

(And I know it's already been done, but I'll say it again)...

THIS... IS... RIFFTRAAAAAAAAAAAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ranika]

The Battle of Thermoplylae on which the movie is very very loosely based was not like  Homer's tales but a real military engagement that needed no embellishment or supernatural monsters.  A quote from Wikipedia:





In the Battle of Thermopylae of 480 BC, an alliance of Greek city-states fought the invading Persian Empire at the pass of Thermopylae in central Greece. Vastly outnumbered, the Greeks held back the Persians for three days in one of history's most famous last stands. A small force led by King Leonidas of Sparta blocked the only road through which the massive army of Xerxes I of Persia (Xerxes the Great) could pass. After three days of battle, a local resident named Ephialtes betrayed the Greeks by revealing a mountain path that led behind the Greek lines. Dismissing the rest of the army, King Leonidas stayed behind with 300 Spartans and 700 Thespian volunteers. The Persians succeeded in taking the pass but sustained heavy losses, extremely disproportionate to those of the Greeks. The fierce resistance of the Spartan-led army offered Athens the invaluable time to prepare for a decisive naval battle that would come to determine the outcome of the war. The subsequent Greek victory at the Battle of Salamis left much of the Persian Empire's navy destroyed and Xerxes was forced to retreat back to Asia, leaving his army in Greece under Mardonius, who was to meet the Greeks in battle one last time. The Spartans assembled at full strength and led a pan-Greek army that defeated the Persians decisively at the Battle of Plataea, ending the Greco-Persian War and with it the expansion of the Persian Empire into Europe.



Anyway,  thats what I learned.

So, what did you want in the movie, Braveheart?  I'm sure when that narrator guy told the story to all the other Greeks he embellished.  He probably wasn't as good at telling a story as Homer, but I'm sure he made the story way more exciting than it was.  That's all I was saying.  I didn't mean that Homer wrote 300 for Christ's sake.

Ew, Braveheart is wretchedly heavily embellished. Some quick things;

-William Wallace was more likely a French-speaking Normano-Scot, descended from a Welsh-Norman family. Being a lowlander, and a knight, he'd have much resembled an English or French knight in most ways. Robert the Bruce, a half-Gaelic noble who ruled Carrick would be more likely to dress as a Gael did.
-Trick there is, medieval Gaels didn't wear kilts. Nobles wore robes or longshirts, no trousers, the middle class, longshirts, no trousers, the laboring class, a thigh-length shirt and trousers or shorts. All wore a cape or cloak with a number of colors in a plaid, striped, or checked pattern that displayed their social rank. Kilts were invented sometime in the late 1500s, and even then were mainly used by the northernmost Scottish clans only (they were the aforementioned cloak, grown too big and thick to wear in a fight, so, when they fought, they'd wrap it around themselves like a robe; looked way different than a modern kilt). Also, no body paint, far too archaic by this point for Scotland.
-It's not actually known for sure Wallace was ever married, he may have been a monk, according to one theory. There is good backing to say he was married, but we know so little about him, it's hard to say much for sure.
-Wallace certainly did not father Edward III, Edward III's mother was a little girl living in France when Wallace died. Edward II, while most likely a homosexual, was known for being a large, strong man, and an excellent single combatant. However, he was horrified of his father, who abused him repeatedly.
-Edward I never fired arrows into Irish mercenaries; it actually did cost money if they died, since their contracts always included a king of proto-insurance. Besides that, his Irish were his favorite infantry, he never commited them to exceeding risk, favorably equipped them, and paid them extra. His Irish never deserted him, but rather are known to have served with distinction. More likely to abandon him, and those who did at times, were the Welsh longbows; the Welsh were recently subjugated, treated poorly, and overtaxed. Many abandonned.
-The Scottish armies were hardly so ragtag. The divisions all had linen standards, horns, and were organized much the same as other feudal armies. The highland armies, the Gaels, were equipped differently, and fought differently, but they were organized pretty much the same. The Norman-Scots would be virtually identical to the English.
-Stirling Bridge. No bridge in movie. Though, in fairness, that was money issues.

...That's a bit. 300 is relatively MORE accurate than Braveheart. Though, in boths defense, neither was intended as a hardfast historical movie. Braveheart was a 'Celtic fantasy'; it's not intended to be very realistic. 300 is a hyped up action movie loosely based on a historical event; it's really not that much different. However...ew, never compare anything history-wise to Braveheart. Braveheart is the anti-history.

[bettertomorrowamy]

yes, that was what I meant.

[Cosmic Muse]

I learned that this is the most homoerotic movie EVER.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Tell me about it.  I was going to poll if 300 or Top Gun was more homoerotic but then I realized that 300 set new standards of homoeroticism that can only be outdone by yaoi.

In terms of homoeroticism in Hollywood movies, Oliver Stone's Alexander beats 300 in blatant homoerotic themes.

[Cosmic Muse]

On the Omnipotent Narrirator note, how did he know about what happened after we left?

IIRC, historically he watched the battle from the hills unwilling to leave until he had to.  And even then he killed himself rather than return in shame; he passed the message along to someone he met on the road back.

If we're referring to this guy, here's a few blurbs from Wikipedia about him:

The Spartan warrior Aristodemus, his name changed to Dilios, was portrayed by David Wenham in the 2007 movie 300. The film was based on the comic book 300 by Frank Miller. Dilios Malcheirosos is also the narrator of the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristodemus_(Spartan)


Aristodemus - Among the men considered to have fought most valiantly that day was one Aristodemus, the lone Spartan survivor of the slaughter of the 300 at the Battle of Thermopylae. A year of disgrace and reproach had attended him upon his return from that previous engagement. He is said to have appeared to be "courting death" in his brave actions, leaving his place in line and "acting like a madman" and ironically for this very reason was given no special honors accorded the others who also fought with distinction but with not quite the same valor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Plataea

I believe you're confusing Wenham's character with this guy:

Two Spartans survived the conflict. Aristodemus suffered an eye injury and was sent behind the lines, eventually ordered back to Sparta with the retreating allies by the King. Pantites was sent by Leonidas to raise support in Thessaly but returned to Thermopylae only after the battle's conclusion. Pantites hanged himself in disgrace after being shunned as a "trembler".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonidas_I

[Tony Farms AKA Puma Man]

- The Persian Empire was ruled by an eight-foot-tall Brazilian transvestite with numerous body piercings.

Don't forget the gold speedo!

[Tyrant]

I learned that the only protection you need in a Spartan battle is a helmet and sheild.

Also, Spartan crimson cape= future Superman costume idea? Assuming Spartans really did wear them.

[Pak-Man]

I learned that there must have been something horribly wrong with the Persian's water supply or something.

Also, I learned that this was the movie everyone with an HD DVD player was waiting for, because it nearly sold every HD copy in Albuquerque. Took me 'til Friday to find a copy.

[Cosmic Muse]

I learned that the only protection you need in a Spartan battle is a helmet and sheild.

Also, Spartan crimson cape= future Superman costume idea? Assuming Spartans really did wear them.

I believe this statue of the real King Leonidas himself perhaps more accurately depicts what a SpARTAN SOLDIER WORE WHEN GOING TO BATTLE.

[Scrivener]

Did they really make Leonidas a breastplate with six-pack abs built in?  Or is that his skin, excepting the Classical-style pasties?

And how did you get the statue to autograph the photo, Lady D?

[NeoMyers]

I learned that even though Disembaudio is non-corporeal, he has a visual form... like a ghost or maybe Obi-Wan... hence how Mike could be disgusted by his leather panties.

[k1]

And here's another thought:   Cave Dwellers times three hundred.  What with all the pecs and all.

Where was Dong?  "It's Thong sir."

[optimus357]

I've learned if you're going to be a traitorous politician you definately don't want to carry evidence of your treachory around with you.  Even if she hadn't busted open his wallet for everyone to see he would have been caught the next time he went to pay his dry cleaning bill.  I also learned that if you have the chance to kill your enemys' leader you should definately take it the First time and spare all of your boyfriends/soldiers lives.  And don't give me a song and dance about honor, cause killing babies isn't exactly fair either.

[bettertomorrowamy]

I learned that if the Spartans don't kill their bad babies they end up growing into mutants that betray them.