the prequels would have been good if George hadn't written them...

[Fortis]

This is fairly obvious, but I need to get this all off my chest...

The story for star wars is great, only because all the plots and themes are taken from other stories and put into one almost not quite epic. ie... Heroes are supposed to fall before they ultimately overcome their weaknesses and defeat evil. Hence Anakin fell to the dark side, and then the love from his son brought him to bring about his destiny...defeat the sith.

Sounds nice doesn't it...and in the hands of any other writer it would have been amazing...sadly George Lucas butchered it.

The script (if you can call it that) was horrible, george decided instead of using scenes in the movie to develop characters through their actions...he was going to have everybody explain to eachother why they were doing everything they were doing. Show don't tell George! So what we have are good actors getting stuck in roles with no charactererization and empty cliche personalities mixed with the dumbest lines of all time, make them seem like horrible actors. Yes, despite popular opinion, natalie portman ewan mcgregor, and (dare i say) Hayden Christensen are all good actors. Just stuck in horrible horrible roles.

I am not saying all the people in Star wars are good though...Jake Lloyd is not for those who like the "are you an angel?" line.

So hate on the movies all you want. (The riffs are great) But just remember as you laugh along with mike and the others, take a moment of silence for what should have been the best movies ever.

[Darth Geek]

I don't agree. The movies would have been BETTER if George hadn't written them (or at least let other people rewrite and polish up the scripts, like he did for Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi) . And they would have been BETTER if he had allowed someone else do direct them (like he did for Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi). But ultimately, the stories come from George. And that means we still would have had Jar Jar and the Gunguns, a whole movie with Anakin as a kid, then two more with him as a whiny teenager, LOTS of boring and pointless Senate hearings and political crap. And most importantly, the Jedi being made out to be a bunch of chumps, fooled by someone in their midst. It's not even untill Episode 3 that Mace Windu actually says "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi"! Well then, what is the point of having Jedi powers that can sense things and see the future, if it can't help you with something like this!

The point is that all of these things would still be there, regardless of who polished the scripts or directed them, because the idea George had of the story he wanted to tell had inherent problems.

[Fortis]

Even though you disagree with me, I agree with you. We owe George Lucas for his wonderful classic trilogy. He gave us Indiana Jones for goodness sake!

But yes I agree he shouldn't have directed and his scripts should have been edited by other more talented writers.

But I disagree with you in that if we still had all of the gungan and anakin and stupid jedi stuff. If it was directed by somebody else and written by others, then there would still be that, just not as much and with better and more to the point exposition.

Yeah the jedi were supposed to be cooler than they were. Come on, what good are they if the dark side is clouding their abilities. Come on!

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

The problem comes from Lucas trying to use the movies to say something about the current US administration....which he has admitted to doing.

He can claim that that was his intent all along.  But the truth is that the first three were firmly based in Saturday Morning Movie Serials.  Same as the Indiana Jones movies.  It was romantic, heroic escapism.  Good Guy win over the Bad Guys - no deep examination of political motives (unless you wanted to do it later).

He should have kept the movies in their own galaxy....in their own reality....that had little to nothing to do with ours.

He also whould have kept hiring real science fiction writers like Leigh Brackett (R.I.P  ) to work on the movies.  ESB is still the best of the lot because of her.

[bratpop]

I dunno, people always say either this or that he shouldn't have directed them. But having just watched the MST3k summer movie review special, I know if Spielberg directed the prequels, they would have just contained more "people looking at things" shots. You couldn't FIND a bigger Lucas yes-man than Spielberg. And let's face it, there isn't really anyone better at directing sci-fi/fantasy. If Peter Jackson did them, they just would have been harder to see.

No, if someone unattached to Lucas made Star Wars movies, they'd suck just as much as your everyday Hollywood blockbuster sci-fi/fantasy movie, which is generally, a lot. But we ignore those films because they AREN'T Star Wars.

Now, the way to have made the prequels not suck is not to have featured kids and teenagers. Nobody ever said Obi-Wan and Anakin were teenagers/20-somethings when they met. It wasn't even implied. They were at least 18 years younger, but they'd still be old (not 30, you bloody lunatic). I've noticed lately that Russell Crowe looks like an older Ewan MacGregor. Even has that thing in the middle of his forehead. So I would have cast him, and someone not spawned from Satan's loins as Anakin. Problem fixed. People are always more forgiving with crap dialogue spewed from old, distinguished actors. Hence why Alec Guinness wasn't laughed off the face of the earth in 1977.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

People are always more forgiving with crap dialogue spewed from old, distinguished actors. Hence why Alec Guinness wasn't laughed off the face of the earth in 1977.

Christopher Lee wasn't laughed at for the Prequels.....although the Prequels themselves are laughed at.

[RoninFox]

He can claim that that was his intent all along.  But the truth is that the first three were firmly based in Saturday Morning Movie Serials.  Same as the Indiana Jones movies.  It was romantic, heroic escapism.  Good Guy win over the Bad Guys - no deep examination of political motives (unless you wanted to do it later).

Actually Lucas has also stated that a lot of the background politics in the original Trilogy were based on his fear of what the Nixon administration would have done had it not abruptly ended.  The difference is that those politics were presented in a much more subtle way and you can more or less forget about them when you're watching the movie.  Thus the phrase "background" politics.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

He can claim that that was his intent all along.  But the truth is that the first three were firmly based in Saturday Morning Movie Serials.  Same as the Indiana Jones movies.  It was romantic, heroic escapism.  Good Guy win over the Bad Guys - no deep examination of political motives (unless you wanted to do it later).

Actually Lucas has also stated that a lot of the background politics in the original Trilogy were based on his fear of what the Nixon administration would have done had it not abruptly ended.  The difference is that those politics were presented in a much more subtle way and you can more or less forget about them when you're watching the movie.  Thus the phrase "background" politics.

Funny....during the OT years he claimed it was all based on "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell.  But then he was saying he planned 9 movies, too.

He should kept the politics of the Prequels as far into the background as he did with the OT.

[RoninFox]

He can claim that that was his intent all along.  But the truth is that the first three were firmly based in Saturday Morning Movie Serials.  Same as the Indiana Jones movies.  It was romantic, heroic escapism.  Good Guy win over the Bad Guys - no deep examination of political motives (unless you wanted to do it later).

Actually Lucas has also stated that a lot of the background politics in the original Trilogy were based on his fear of what the Nixon administration would have done had it not abruptly ended.  The difference is that those politics were presented in a much more subtle way and you can more or less forget about them when you're watching the movie.  Thus the phrase "background" politics.

Funny....during the OT years he claimed it was all based on "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell.  But then he was saying he planned 9 movies, too.

He should kept the politics of the Prequels as far into the background as he did with the OT.

The story arc of Luke is very "Power of Myth" along with many other sources, it was the backstory of Palpatine that was Nixon-based...also interesting that the original take on Palpatine (at least according to the novelization of the first film which is credited to Lucas) he was pretty much a puppet with no true ambition or goal of his own that got out of control.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

He can claim that that was his intent all along.  But the truth is that the first three were firmly based in Saturday Morning Movie Serials.  Same as the Indiana Jones movies.  It was romantic, heroic escapism.  Good Guy win over the Bad Guys - no deep examination of political motives (unless you wanted to do it later).

Actually Lucas has also stated that a lot of the background politics in the original Trilogy were based on his fear of what the Nixon administration would have done had it not abruptly ended.  The difference is that those politics were presented in a much more subtle way and you can more or less forget about them when you're watching the movie.  Thus the phrase "background" politics.

Well, as long as we're on the subject....if "everyone knows" that there's always only two Sith, then why would Vader ever help

Funny....during the OT years he claimed it was all based on "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell.  But then he was saying he planned 9 movies, too.

He should kept the politics of the Prequels as far into the background as he did with the OT.

The story arc of Luke is very "Power of Myth" along with many other sources, it was the backstory of Palpatine that was Nixon-based...also interesting that the original take on Palpatine (at least according to the novelization of the first film which is credited to Lucas) he was pretty much a puppet with no true ambition or goal of his own that got out of control.

Okay....as long as we're on the subject.

If "everyone knows" that there's never any more than two Sith then why all of this talking about turning Luke to the Dark Side as an ally?  Wouldn't both Vader and Sidious immediately go "You want to get rid of me"....which ultimately is what each of them wanted.

I'm just wondering if they always sat around telling each other that the first chance they got they would kill each other off and replace them with someone else as casually.....?

And again....why didn't Yoda warn Luke that the Emperor could shoot lightning from his hands?

[Fortis]

Well as you can see from the prequels, Emperor Palpatine made the habit of getting rid of any of his previous padawan's if he thought that he could get a better and more powerful one out of it. Hence Count Dooku's look of suprise when he told Anakin to kill Dooku.

I mean look at his original plan in Return of the Jedi, it would have turned Luke to the Dark Side if he had succeeded in killing Darth Vader, so the Emperor doesn't mind if he loses one and gains another.

Yeah, why didn't Yoda tell Luke that... it would have helped a lot in the long run, maybe at least so he could remove any metal clothing and such.

[RoninFox]

Yeah, why didn't Yoda tell Luke that... it would have helped a lot in the long run, maybe at least so he could remove any metal clothing and such.

But then he'd have to fight one handed...

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

I mean look at his original plan in Return of the Jedi, it would have turned Luke to the Dark Side if he had succeeded in killing Darth Vader, so the Emperor doesn't mind if he loses one and gains another.

But Vader and the Emperor had been talking about this since the middle of ESB.

And when Vader took Luke to see the Emperor, Vader knew that he'd have to defend the Emperor against Luke.....in essence sacrifice himself for the guy who he was trying to get Luke to help him get rid of...

So, Vader's so Force-whipped that he'd do anything the Emperor said?

Thus we find the connection between the Darth Vader ot the OT and that snotty, little creep, Anakin from the Prequels?

[RoninFox]

I mean look at his original plan in Return of the Jedi, it would have turned Luke to the Dark Side if he had succeeded in killing Darth Vader, so the Emperor doesn't mind if he loses one and gains another.

But Vader and the Emperor had been talking about this since the middle of ESB.

And when Vader took Luke to see the Emperor, Vader knew that he'd have to defend the Emperor against Luke.....in essence sacrifice himself for the guy who he was trying to get Luke to help him get rid of...

So, Vader's so Force-whipped that he'd do anything the Emperor said?

Thus we find the connection between the Darth Vader ot the OT and that snotty, little creep, Anakin from the Prequels?

Vader also attempted in ESB to tempt Luke into destroying the Emperor and joining together to rule.  You could say that both Vader and Palpatine saw Luke as the logical next apprentice, and both wanted to destroy the other in order to hold the position of Master when Luke was turned.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

I mean look at his original plan in Return of the Jedi, it would have turned Luke to the Dark Side if he had succeeded in killing Darth Vader, so the Emperor doesn't mind if he loses one and gains another.

But Vader and the Emperor had been talking about this since the middle of ESB.

And when Vader took Luke to see the Emperor, Vader knew that he'd have to defend the Emperor against Luke.....in essence sacrifice himself for the guy who he was trying to get Luke to help him get rid of...

So, Vader's so Force-whipped that he'd do anything the Emperor said?

Thus we find the connection between the Darth Vader ot the OT and that snotty, little creep, Anakin from the Prequels?

Vader also attempted in ESB to tempt Luke into destroying the Emperor and joining together to rule.  You could say that both Vader and Palpatine saw Luke as the logical next apprentice, and both wanted to destroy the other in order to hold the position of Master when Luke was turned.

And in the end, Vader just lay back and "thought of England" while he got screwed?  He wanted Luke to help him kill the Emperor....their lightsabres were inches away from doing just that....

PUSSY!