Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi (2017) (spoilers free to be seen)

[Pak-Man]

Yeah, this would have only applied if Luke was attempting to ram his X-Wing down the exhaust port. Finn was definitely going to die for all the wrong reasons.

[stansimpson]

Yeah, this would have only applied if Luke was attempting to ram his X-Wing down the exhaust port. Finn was definitely going to die for all the wrong reasons.

Then what was Holdo's excuse?

[Darth Geek]

So this really conveys what I hated about Rose's line/actions at the end. Is this a misinterpretation?

I don't think it is a fair correlation. But Rose's line in TLJ is really poorly written and stupid, regardless.

[NRRork]

I thought her line was really corny, but every Star Wars movie has had at least ONE line that made me cringe.

It would've been better if it were closer to say, when Han was about to be frozen in carbonite, and Chewie goes crazy and starts attacking everyone and Han makes him stop by saying it's not helping him, and implying that you're just gonna get yourself killed for nothing, and there are people still who need you.

Actually, yeah, that last bit would've been perfect: "You can't throw away your life for nothing, there are people here who still need you."

[Darth Geek]

It would've been better if it were closer to say, when Han was about to be frozen in carbonite, and Chewie goes crazy and starts attacking everyone and Han makes him stop by saying it's not helping him, and implying that you're just gonna get yourself killed for nothing, and there are people still who need you.

Actually, yeah, that last bit would've been perfect: "You can't throw away your life for nothing, there are people here who still need you."

Yeah, that would have been much better.

[NRRork]

Then what was Holdo's excuse?

At the time, they still believed if they could just get down to Crait, they could send out a distress message and someone would come to their aid. And Holdo would've died anyway, they would've kept chasing her ship until it ran out of fuel, and they would've blown it to smithereens. The First Order certainly had the manpower to go down to Crait AND keep following her.

This way, she took several Star Destroyers with her, and maybe slowed the First Order down long enough for the plan to be carried out.

[stansimpson]

It's so strange to me that we're watching the same movie.

I'm not discounting anything being said here (...yet?). I just didn't pick up on any of this.

[Kete]

I think this all just shows that Star Wars is evolving.  This is great!  I don't want the same stuff regurgitated over and over.  Give me some new themes and different philosophies.

[Darth Geek]

I think this all just shows that Star Wars is evolving.  This is great!  I don't want the same stuff regurgitated over and over.  Give me some new themes and different philosophies.

I agree that new themes and different philosophies are good, but they need to be written well. And thought out in advance better. Which is my biggest problem with the new series so far.

[stansimpson]

I think this all just shows that Star Wars is evolving.  This is great!  I don't want the same stuff regurgitated over and over.  Give me some new themes and different philosophies.

I agree that new themes and different philosophies are good, but they need to be written well. And thought out in advance better. Which is my biggest problem with the new series so far.

Agreed. I would rather have old themes/philosophies done well than new ones done poorly.

[Cyrusso]

I think I've said this before, but for me one of the major themes of TLJ is self-sacrifice. This is seen most prominently in the character arcs of Holdo, Finn, and Luke. Whether self-sacrifice can be seen as a philosophy or not I always admire when a character gives their all to deal a serious blow to the bad guys in one last act of heroism. For me, it's really hard to do that kind of thing "poorly" as long as what they do is meaningful. That's why I've never got the hate for Holdo. She took out like half the damn First order! That was frickin' awesome! 

[Darth Geek]

That's why I've never got the hate for Holdo. She took out like half the damn First order! That was frickin' awesome!

Oh that moment was badass, definitely. I've never heard anyone complain about Holdo for that part. The problem with Holdo was her lack of communication about her plan for no reason.
I do think the badass taking out the Star Destroyers would have been a better and more fitting end for Lea rather than Holdo, a character we just met in this movie.

[stansimpson]

That's why I've never got the hate for Holdo. She took out like half the damn First order! That was frickin' awesome!

Oh that moment was badass, definitely. I've never heard anyone complain about Holdo for that part.

Really? Strap in, because I (and others I've talked to) have quite a problem here. And it ties with Rose's actions as my biggest problem.

So, if one of those ships could take out those Star Destroyers, why did it have to be manned? Why not lay a proverbial brick on the accelerator and aim? If that's too difficult (which is stretching it already but I'll go with it), why have your most important(?) political figure pilot it? Why not get a droid to do it? And why not do this earlier?

For the record, I was really trying to avoid discussing this aspect because, admittedly, it's bordering on CinemaSins-level of dissecting internal logic too much. However, I *did* think about this *during* the movie, and it really took me out of the moment. Wish it hadn't, because it had the chance to be breathtaking. While our audience of mostly children were awed, I was just sitting there like "That's pretty, but ....wasn't that a stupid decision?"

Upon first watch, the movie comes across as a lot of characters making stupid decisions. So much so, that by the time we get to Luke's showdown with Kylo, my wife & I could only figure that his altered appearance was based on lazy filmmaking rather than clever foreshadowing. So I would say that's evidence that we *were* paying attention to a reasonable degree imo. But that's how far the movie had let us down by that point.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

If Star Wars was hard science fiction I'd be complaining like crazy about hyperdrive suddenly being used as a weapon after all this time.  But it's always been more fantasy than science so I can let it go. 

If it is common knowledge that a ship could do that, everyone should be building hyperdrive weapons, small drones that would pop into hyperdrive and rip through big ships.   No one would build big ships if such weapons existed.

[stansimpson]

If Star Wars was hard science fiction I'd be complaining like crazy about hyperdrive suddenly being used as a weapon after all this time.  But it's always been more fantasy than science so I can let it go. 

It's still lazy, if you ask me. Tell me what you think about this little fanfic moment:

Poe: "Why don't we hyperdrive into these guys?"
Admiral Akbar: "Impossible! You have to pilot it into [technobabble area] for it to work. The odds are a million to one at that speed!"
[10mins later]
Holdo: "Holdo my beer. I'm going for it."

I just made that scene 100x more dramatic and the sacrifice that much more powerful (since there was more risk involved) while patching up all the loose logic with a dash of foreshadowing. And it only took me 30 seconds to write those 3 lines of dialogue. And no one has to say, "Eh... It's fantasy so who cares?" That's just as bad to me as, "Eh... It's just a movie." I understand we all have to draw the line somewhere though.

Having said all this.... I do want to extend my gratitude to everyone for explaining things better for me.