Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread

[Edward J Grug III]

(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?

[The Lurker]

Short-tempered, sure, but I wouldn't call him emo.  He seems like what Vader would have been like if he hadn't mellowed out and been under the direction of Palpatine.

[Quantum Vagina]

(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?

I understood that as "Hey dad, I need your help in something", and that something was stabby stab stab related. Han took it as "Mah boy needs meh".

[Tripe]

It would have made more sense for that to be the case, I assumed there were scheduling problems when that scene was filmed.

Why wouldn't they have just put someone else in the costume?

Possible contract reason would be my guess.

True, which is why her technique wasn't all that great.  The thing, though, is that Ren doesn't actually know what Vader was like.  He only thinks he does.

Yeah, at the earliest he was conceived on the jaunt from the Sarlac Pit to the briefing about Endor; I'd actually like to see or read an account of how he first hears about Vader.

[Imrahil]

People desperately looking for holes #2:

Ren's a weak villain because he was almost beaten by Rey (after being shot by the lazer shotgun that is the Bowcaster but apparently that's not relevant) despite the fact Vader had trouble with Luke TWICE and lost the second time even though he'd been a studying the force for about 30 years to Luke's 4 or so.

The only part of your point I disagree with was Vader having trouble with Luke twice. In Empire I always thought it seemed Vader had the fight in hand 90 percent of the time but held back to try and tempt Luke instead of destroy him.

Definitely true. He does most of the duel one handed. Luke actually manages to get a hit in, Vader gets pissed, two hands, and then bam, one hand (for Luke).

[Edward J Grug III]

(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?

I understood that as "Hey dad, I need your help in something", and that something was stabby stab stab related. Han took it as "Mah boy needs meh".

Yeah, that something was killing his dad, but he was saying he was conflicted, at least a little. Not that he wasn't strong enough to get a lightsaber though him.

[Edward J Grug III]

It would have made more sense for that to be the case, I assumed there were scheduling problems when that scene was filmed.

Why wouldn't they have just put someone else in the costume?

Possible contract reason would be my guess.

That would be a weird contract that, like, excludes stunt doubles?

[Tripe]

I don't know, I just think the placing of Phasma in that scene seems to make sense enough that it's conceivable that was the original intent. It would have fit with her recognizing Finn, and given the character a longer bit of screen time.

I mean they've given TR-8R a back story now, which is fine, but it seems like that wasn't the original intent when that scene was born.

[Edward J Grug III]

Well, my theory is: it's another distinct toy to produce.

[Tripe]

Almost certainly that was a factor too.

[Russell AKA Soguru]

Kylo Ren also has insight, and maybe even some hint of understanding, and it was something very simple. That look he gave FN-2187 in the village. That look said SO much more than words ever could.

First time killing? Weren't able to do it huh? Don't worry, you will, one day.
But that's not even all of it. It was a moment of clarity. Maybe like Vader with Piett, Kylo saw something in Finn, some admirable quality, and maybe even pity, what with the blood stain on his mask.

Kylo Ren even knew who it was who helped Poe escape. Do I really have to mention his reflexes again? Freezing a laser blast in place even when he's barely paying it any mind? I don't remember Anakin doing anything nearly as awesome as that.

Here's the biggest difference though... Kylo Ren is a little more reserved. His emotional outbursts only happen rarely and when they do, they last for very brief periods of time.

[Quantum Vagina]

Kylo Ren also has insight, and maybe even some hint of understanding, and it was something very simple. That look he gave FN-2187 in the village. That look said SO much more than words ever could.

First time killing? Weren't able to do it huh? Don't worry, you will, one day.
But that's not even all of it. It was a moment of clarity. Maybe like Vader with Piett, Kylo saw something in Finn, some admirable quality, and maybe even pity, what with the blood stain on his mask.

Kylo Ren even knew who it was who helped Poe escape. Do I really have to mention his reflexes again? Freezing a laser blast in place even when he's barely paying it any mind? I don't remember Anakin doing anything nearly as awesome as that.

Here's the biggest difference though... Kylo Ren is a little more reserved. His emotional outbursts only happen rarely and when they do, they last for very brief periods of time.

dude, half the movie was a Kylo temper tantrum. Every scene he was in ended with him breaking something.

[Darth Geek]

I don't get why people are complaining so much about Kylo Ren being so prone to irrational outbursts. That just makes him MORE dangerous! And if he didn't have the flaws, if he was the cool collected master of The Force, then he would be just like Vader. People keep complaining about how much this movie is like the ANH and ESB, but then they complain that Ren is a huge departure?
By making him this way it gives the villain an arc, and a motive other than "I want to take over the world galaxy."

The only issue that I have with it is wondering why Snoke would have stopped the training so early and let Kylo Ren go out in the field. It didn't seem like the First Order really needed him with what they were doing, just finding the map and readying the Starkiller weapon.

[ScottotD]

No! He's emo and so dumb compared to the incredibly restrained Vader who choked random guys.

I'm glad we're all agreed Into Darkness is massively underrated though

[jonalame]

(Incidentally that also makes him better than Kylo Ren, because Ren didn't have any qualms about killing daddy.)

"I don't know if I'm strong enough to do what I have to do, will you help me?" Was him having at least one qualm, wasn't it?

Indeed.

And, uh, before I begin, can I just say how good it feels to want to argue FOR Star Wars again?

LC, I don't know where to begin with disagreeing with you, but this point is as good as any I suppose. He definitely had qualms. Snoke himself knew how tough it was going to be for him to go through with killing his father. He ignored Ren's arrogance and seemed to place the act on a pedestal, he called it something that would test "even the Master of the Knights of Ren", buttering him up and stroking his ego while warning him that he would be tempted to spare him and that if he succeeded at it he would have completed his initation. He also clearly had qualms about killing Rey. "WHAT GIRL?" the tacit implication is "Is it Rey? The girl I let get away?" ...Why did he let her get away? (I'm predicting your initial response to that will be "because sequel".) Being left to ponder that question is one of the things I found so compelling about Ren/Rey. That question alone would have had me lining up to see VIII all on its own.

To comment on a previous post about the "first time she picked up a glowstick": We don't know that and even if that is true, she has combat experience(You say a staff and a sword or two different things. Sure, I guess that is why she held the saber like a staff when she started winning.) and clearly has strong, natural, Force related intuition and is poised to finally "bring balance to the Force". All she had to do to win that fight was go Zen and connect with the Force. All of this is right there in the film, I'm not having to imagine much. I would also like to mention that bit of dialogue where Ren, post-interrogation of Rey, is quite frustrated(frightened even), as he explains to Snoke that she is a natural, a raw talent with incredible potential and that she resisted his abilities.