Is there such a thing as "too awful to riff"?

[CJones]

Up until this point, I would have said "no". MST3K did Manos, Monster A-Go-Go and The Starfighters. Rifftrax has done The Room, Birdemic and Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny. Heck, even Fun in Balloon Land was bearable.

But then we got this thing. I'm still trying to get through one viewing. It's like watching 90 minutes of your lawn growing in real time, with your next door neighbor noodling on his guitar the whole time, and your other next door neighbor wisecracking about your lawn. Meanwhile the people at the other end of the block are talking about something that may be related your lawn, but you'll never know. Also, a ninja shows up.

The point is. This is the first Rifftrax that I actually regret buying. There's incompetently bad (like The Room or Birdemic). And there's dull bad (like The Starfighters or Fun in Balloon Land). But they still had the potential for fun, because whoever made them was honestly trying to make a movie. This thing OTOH feels like someone made a deliberate attempt to make the least entertaining movie possible. And they succeeded. No matter how good the riff might be, I find this to be, quite frankly, unwatchable.   

[yantubos]

Very rarely do I post in this forum. Not because I don't like it or anything. But I have been compelled to post something about this dreadful "film". It's almost like everyone involved in this "movie" was blackmailed into doing so. Not one shred of competence is displayed in any form. Unlike Fun in Balloonland, Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny, Birdemic, the Star Wars Holiday Special - films I would use to introduce someone to Rifftrax - I would caution to keep new, potential Rifftrax fans far, far away from this one!

[Miku Fan]

"Is there such a thing as "too awful to riff"?"


Apart from Harry Potter, Hobbit and LOTR, no. There is nothing too awful to riff. There are only fans too weak to watch. 

[Trekker4747]

Very rarely do I post in this forum. Not because I don't like it or anything. But I have been compelled to post something about this dreadful "film". It's almost like everyone involved in this "movie" was blackmailed into doing so. Not one shred of competence is displayed in any form. Unlike Fun in Balloonland, Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny, Birdemic, the Star Wars Holiday Special - films I would use to introduce someone to Rifftrax - I would caution to keep new, potential Rifftrax fans far, far away from this one!

This is certainly one for "seasoned" Rifftrax/MST3K fans.  When it comes to MST3K I usually recommend movies like "Time Chasers" as introductory episodes.  Because for all of its faults, "Time Chasers" is a watchable movie. It's very much a product of its limited budget and sort of wanting main cast but (esp. the male lead) but overall you could make a case for it being competently directed and produced. It doesn't suffer from other indie projects we've seen like Manos, Birdemic, Jack and Jill and now Rollergator.

For the Rifftax non-blockbuster riffs this idea I think remains, to "introduce" someone to the concept you need to select a movie that by itself is at least watchable on some level.  Can't think of a good example off the top of my head because my idea of "watchable" has grown more and more muddy over the years with the more RT and MST3K I view.  I *might* make an argument for the Future Force/Zone movies as they're somewhat watchable in the realm of DTV early-'90s movies starring has-been actors. Along similar lines I'd also say "Abraxas" since it also is somewhat a "watchable" movie of an early-90s DTV action movie and at least has some "names" in it. 

I do think there may be a such thing as "too awful to riff" but it's a pretty vague line and I don't think Rollergator crossed it. I think there's only a couple of movies in the RT library I don't often watch but mostly because the genre of movie didn't appeal to me.  I can't think of anything "too awful to riff" on the level of MST3K like "TISCWSLABMUZ" and "Hamlet" (shudder.)

I'd really have to look through my RT library to see which one I think is so awful that the guys couldn't salvage it but, again, my barometer for "awful" has a bias in it due to my sadism when it comes to bad movies.

Thing with "Rollergator" is you have to pretty much be a bad-movie "purist."  You have to relish and revel in this level of bad and love every moment of it. "TISCWSLABMUZ" and "Hamlet" are bad movies for sure, but they're so bleak and in the case of "TISHKWEUJF" just a chore to watch. They're boring movies and boring is much harder to overcome than "bad."

And they're boring just in terms there's nothing to enjoy about them, even the "badness."

Rollergator is a bad movie, pure and simple. It's incompetently made and probably the most incompetently scored movie in the entire history of adding music to moving pictures.  With the possible exception of Joe Estevez and his level of "charm" he brings and the shallow aesthetics of our female "lead" the actors bring nothing to the proceedings.  Our central character, the Rollergator, is terrible in almost every conceivable way a character can be terrible. Annoying to listen to, no appealing qualities and nothing about him (either physically or as a character) to latch a viewer into caring.   It's constantly surprising how often MST3K and RT has brought us a movie and made us thing nothing could be more incompetently made on any level.

You thought Hal Warren was incompetent with his crummy camera that could only record 30-seconds at a time and couldn't do audio and then the film for poorly processed in post?  Well, here we get a videotaped movie that looks like it used a camcorder that was probably bought at Radio Shack on Friday and then returned the following Monday after "filming" had wrapped in order to tighten the budget.

Think the audio in Birdemic was bad with the sound cutting in and out and being at different levels, and the aforementioned Manos with two or three people looping in the dialogue in post?  Well here we have this movie where the only thing used to pick-up sound was the camcorder's on-board mike.  The "Rollergator"'s voice being looped in during POST or likely said by the camerman (as I believe the "creator" of this movie voiced Rollergator, so he probably said the gator's lines close to the camcorder, hence the audio being better than those away from the mike.)

Think the crummy, public-domain, original or cheap music in all of the movies we've seen ever were bad?  You have no idea what bad is until you've heard shitty acoustic guitar playing endlessly for an hour and half.

Sad thing is, there's worse out there. Who knows how far down this pit goes but after seeing "Birdemic" I really didn't think things could be any worse when it came to incompetence, with the possible lower threshold being Manos.  But, here we are.

No, I do not think this movie is "too awful to riff." It was suited for riffing.  It's just one of those movies for people who're die-hard fanatics of bad movies. People who see train-wrecks like this and relish in just how much things can go wrong in making a movie. Movies so terrible you actually feel sorry for Joe Estevez and seriously wonder how badly he owed someone money.

This is a movie for professional watchers of RT/MST3K. 

There could be a movie out there that's too awful to riff, we've likely been there a few times between MST3K and RT. (again, Hamlet and The Incredibly Mixed Up and Convoluted Movie Title.)  I, for one, enjoy "Monster a Go-Go" and "The Creeping Terror" for their terribleness but, again, I consider myself a connoisseur of bad movies.  The bad reviews the next Fantastic 4 movie is getting? Almost makes me want to see it MORE.

But this movie has the balance of aspects being bad that it's an entertaining bad.  My BF isn't quite the savor of bad movies like I am, but he watches RTs with me sometimes.  This one as we were watching it were saying similar things as the guys and talking about how bad this movie was, ranting about the endless acoustic guitar, and "talking to" the gator imploring him not to rap again or do some impression again.  When my DVD faulted 10-15 minutes before the end my friend said, "Got to say, I'm honestly upset. I want to see where all of this was going."  So I tried burning the DVD again, still faulted, and we ended up watching the last bit of it on-line after rebooting my computer because Flash is a pain-in-the-ass.

I wouldn't say he's the best "metric" for this stuff, but if he was wrapped up into it enough to want to finish it, I'd say the movie isn't "too awful to riff."

But everyone is different.  There's plenty of RTs I love but I know he wouldn't like.  Hell, I couldn't even get him to finish "Setting Up a Room" and much like the guys in the videos centered around that short, that was a short I was just sucked into and fascinated by.

TL;DR:

"Yes, there is. But Rollergator isn't it."

[Pak-Man]

There is one defense, and one defense only that I can summon for Rollergator:

At least it isn't dull.

Yes, every minute seems like an eternity and every scene well outstays its welcome, but there is bafflement in every corner. The titular gator himself is ten different kinds of strange, the "Jokes" make it seem like they got a ten-year-old Tommy Wisseau to come in and punch up the script, and it's pretty obvious that the actors were asked to do a lot of improv, yet had no improv skills. This stuff is entertaining to me.

Now it fails on EVERY SINGLE OTHER LEVEL, but I'd rather watch this unriffed than, say, Red Zone Cuba. I think all of us Rifftrax fans have our kryptonite, and mine is boredom.

Sidebar: Has there ever been a GOOD movie that frequently cuts to shots of carnival rides?

[DrKlahn]

Our first watching of this awful series of moving images was without any Riffing. So while it's undeniably horrible, it is not to awful to riff. I haven't had time to get through the Riff, but trust me so far it's much better with the guys than without.

[Darth Geek]

Sidebar: Has there ever been a GOOD movie that frequently cuts to shots of carnival rides?

The Lost Boys.

[Scrivener]

Sidebar: Has there ever been a GOOD movie that frequently cuts to shots of carnival rides?

The Lost Boys.

One might fit Strangers on a Train into that category too, though YMMV on the frequency of carnival ride shots.

[CJones]

Okay, I finally did manage to get all the way through this. And I'll admit, the second half isn't quite as unbearable as the first half. So maybe I'll take back my saying that I regret buying this.

But OTOH, I recall that Mesa of Lost Women was $7.99 instead of the usual $9.99. I kinda feel like that should have been the case here as well.

[Trekker4747]

"Mesa" was released in 2012, $7.99 was fairly common back then.  But "9.99" became more the standard for VODs once RT became its own company (no longer under the Legend Films banner) and to better ensure the involvement of Mike, Kevin AND Bill. For a while it was usually one or the other, sometimes both but often times with a slightly higher price.

The VODs with the MK&B have been 9.99 for quite some time.  RT:Presents! with other riffers usually are cheaper.

[Compound]

Sidebar: Has there ever been a GOOD movie that frequently cuts to shots of carnival rides?

The Lost Boys.

Rollercoaster, a fairly watchable film from the 1970s about a cop trying to take down a terrorist targeting amusement parks.


Zombieland, Funhouse and Final Destination 3 probably also count.

[MerryWanna]

Funny how this topic already started because I came here to start it myself. You guys covered most of the points already. I will add that the unbearable guitar soundtrack made this one difficult for me to watch even with the riffs. The guys were really brave to take this one on...

[Darth Geek]

This movie feels like it should have already been reviewed by The Cinema Snob.

[Trekker4747]

This movie feels like it should have already been reviewed by The Cinema Snob.

Yeah, it does feel that way.

Though someone linked to something earlier, where Obscurus Lupa (a former Channel Awesome critic who's since left CA and is independent) was apparently going to review the movie, had reviewed another movie made by the creator and was asked to remove it by the guy; claiming copyright over the footage. Though she's under no obligation to do so (Fair Use) she did anyway.  I wonder if this is why Snob hasn't done it? Maybe he's done, or tried to do, the director's other stuff and was met with resistance and didn't bother with the hassle to push for his rights in the situation.

[Pak-Man]

I think Rifftrax beat everyone to the punch on this one. There's hardly any info on this movie at all on the Internet. Not even a Wikipedia article. Posts on this forum are already some of the top search results when you search for "Rollergator."