Remaining un-DVD'd MST3Ks & Exclusive Shout! Bonus Discs

[Iron Curtain]

SJP: That's another reason I prefer downloadable files of music over streaming them; files are ownership whereas streaming is tenancy. Since lossless is best, I prefer going to Bandcamp over iTunes or Amazon.

[Pak-Man]

The thing that will suck most about the death of physical media is watching that pile of birthday/Christmas presents with the tell-tale shapes slowly shrink to a small pile of Birthday/Christmas cards.

[stethacantus]

If physical media is dying, then how come DVD, Blu-ray and CD players are still selling?

Because people want to be able to still play the media they've already bought seems a likely explanation.

But if they are only buying digital media now, then why bother buying a brand new disc player when they could just upload the same music or movies stored on their old discs? 

2nd hand items do not count in "DVD/CD sales" charts for companies, because the companies make nothing off of them.  It was quite a while ago (early or mid-'80s I"m thinking), so I don't know if you were aware of it at the time, but there was a time where record companies were trying HARD to have it made illegal to sell CDs second hand for that very reason: it ate into their already-inflated profits!

Record companies charged $8 for a vinyl record album. And that was back when the oil crisis made petroleum expensive, and therefore byproducts like vinyl expensive. CDs cold be pressed at a fraction of what it cost to press vinyl. And yet CDs sold for $16, twice the price of vinyl. That price never came down. If the record companies are so worried about competing against second hand CDs then all they need to do is lower the retail price of the CDs and still make a profit.

The real culprit here is not eBay, but that in the past decade a lot of major stores and websites have been selling used CDs and DVDs as new. Every time I order from Amazon I end up returning at least one movie because it was obviously used and rewrapped. About half of my Shout! Factory sets are used, even though I paid Amazon for new discs. I did not realize this until it was pointed out that all the MST3K volumes should have a sticker on the plastic shrinkwrap that lists the extras. To help protect the boxes from wear and tear I never completely remove the shrinkwrap, but just use a knife to cut out and remove the plastic in front of the discs. That is how I know that at least half the MST3K box sets I bought from Amazon in the past were used. Sometimes it is very obvious. I had worn out boxes, and in one case a DVD released by 20th Century Fox has a completely different movie in the box released by M.G.M. home video. Try to explain that one Amazon!! The stores are worse. You can find used MST3K episodes on the shelves of Barnes & Noble being sold as new ( once again no stickers ), as well as other television series in boxes that look worn and used despite being in shrinkwrap.

The math is simple. If I am making the decision to buy new, then I am trying to give my money to the manufacturer. If I get a used copy instead, not only was I scammed, but Shout! Factory did not get my money. Retailers are always asking you to trade in your used DVDs and CDs, in return you get a few bucks credit. They are suppose to resell those used DVDs and CDs as USED, not at full price as new. Who knows how much revenue is lost to this scam. But I think if the used sold as new DVDs are removed from the marketplace then you will see a significant improvement of DVD sales.

Another reason that companies are phasing out physical media is because it is increasingly less profitable for them to sell items.  That is partly because of the very things you mention: so many people are waiting for what films and music they want to drop massively in price.  Less profit = less motive to spend the huge sums on design, manufacture, storage, and shipping to make them available in the first place.  Instead they are focusing more on subscription services (e.g. Netflix, Amazon Video rentals where it can be pulled from circulation on a whim), and digital media to get what income they can.  With digital media, studios have zero overhead, and ultimate control over distribution, including the ability to completely prevent '2nd hand sales' eating into their profits.

That is the incentive for studios to go to digital media. But what about companies like Shout! who do not own the movies they release? Most of the video companies out there do not own the films they release, but rather pay distribution rights for X number of years. If the big studios are no longer interested in the overhead costs of packaging and shipping physical media, then they could easily lease the distribution rights to smaller companies. That would make things simpler for Shout!. I am sure there were a lot of television series they were interested in releasing, but the studio that owned the show would not sell it to them because that studio was thinking that they may release it themselves at some point in the future. If that door is closed, then why not allow another company to release it? Recently FOX said there would be no more Simpson DVDs. So why not make a deal with Shout! or some other company to release the rest of the seasons?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Something else that occurred to me today. The assumption is that Shout! will eventually release the 11th season of MST3K with the new cast on DVD ( or Blu-ray for the first time ) as a season set. But what if they filter season 11 into the next volume sets. So that Vol 39 has two episodes from the original series and two episodes from the reboot series? How would that effect negotiations for the very unlikely episodes?

[LucasM]

Keep in mind also: when was the last time you saw a sale on digital media?  I've never seen or heard of one.  They are always priced at 'new release' prices, despite having no physical item, no packaging, no extras, no resale value (or ability to resell), and can be pulled from circulation on a whim.  Yet people still buy the stuff.

Depends on what medium you're talking about. Maybe not for film and video, but for computer games, sales-including deep discounts reaching 90%-permeate download services such as Steam, Humble and GOG. It's also what I love about Rifftrax: like the Video Game industry, they don't have the cartel-like mentality that dominates Hollywood and the Major Record labels.­­­­­­­­­­­

Yeah, I was writing about film/TV/music.  And your other comment reminded me that I'd best clarify that my 'no digital media' personal rule was in regards to major label releases (e.g. Paramount, Columbia, Disney), as I have still bought RiffTrax, QuipTracks, and some iRiffs that were VODs.  If I thought they would ever be available as DVD/Blu-rays, I might not.

SJP: That's another reason I prefer downloadable files of music over streaming them; files are ownership whereas streaming is tenancy. Since lossless is best, I prefer going to Bandcamp over iTunes or Amazon.

If I like music, I still buy the CDs.  (On very rare occasions I've bought an individual tune - lossless, like you - and yes, I would do that rather than streaming for the many reasons we've discussed before.)  But usually I'll buy the CD even if there are only a couple exceptional tunes on the disc.  [Some have turned into investments, with a few out of print CDs being worth well over $100 each - something not possible with digital media, as it is even illegal to resell them at cost.]


I think we have drifted very far afield of the thread's core.  I am very much including myself here, as I added the massive entry last night that had virtually no relationship at all on the thread's raison d'etre, unlike most of the posts before it, which still had some connections.  Perhaps there's a thread specifically for more general discussion on the benefit/loss of physical over digital media (or we could make one)?  [Regardless, I won't be responding any more on this stuff.  I've used more time and mental energy than I could spare already.]

[Pak-Man]

Something else that occurred to me today. The assumption is that Shout! will eventually release the 11th season of MST3K with the new cast on DVD ( or Blu-ray for the first time ) as a season set. But what if they filter season 11 into the next volume sets. So that Vol 39 has two episodes from the original series and two episodes from the reboot series? How would that effect negotiations for the very unlikely episodes?

That assumption is coming from the fact that they're releasing that very box set to Kickstarter backers, so it would be strange for them not to release it at market at some point. But then again, that is an assumption. They could take it a different way and make it so that only backers are ever able to get them all in one set. I think there would be some outcry if they went that way, though.

[BathTub]

Yeah I would expect the KS set to be essentially a retail box set of the Season 11.

[stethacantus]

Or they could make the season 11 set exclusive to KS and everyone else would need to buy the same episodes through volume sets. I am assuming the season 11 set would just be each episode in individual cases bound by a single five sided box, as the case with most of the volume sets ( only a much wider box. ) so basically if you bought season 11 through the volume sets then you would get the exact same disks and cases, only through a slower process.

But we will have to wait and see what happens. It could end up like Daredevil, a two year period between streaming release and DVD/Blu-ray release.

[Darth Geek]

Yeah I would expect the KS set to be essentially a retail box set of the Season 11.

That's what I have as my backer level, because of getting the whole season on BluRay.

This is a completely different time then when the original shows were licenced in the 90s. At the time they wouldn't have been thinking about selling the episodes, even on VHS, to the extent we sell TV shows now.
I'm sure Joel made sure that he has the rights to sell on DVD in addition to showing on Netflix.

[MrTorso]

The real culprit here is not eBay, but that in the past decade a lot of major stores and websites have been selling used CDs and DVDs as new. Every time I order from Amazon I end up returning at least one movie because it was obviously used and rewrapped. About half of my Shout! Factory sets are used, even though I paid Amazon for new discs. I did not realize this until it was pointed out that all the MST3K volumes should have a sticker on the plastic shrinkwrap that lists the extras. To help protect the boxes from wear and tear I never completely remove the shrinkwrap, but just use a knife to cut out and remove the plastic in front of the discs. That is how I know that at least half the MST3K box sets I bought from Amazon in the past were used. Sometimes it is very obvious. I had worn out boxes, and in one case a DVD released by 20th Century Fox has a completely different movie in the box released by M.G.M. home video. Try to explain that one Amazon!! The stores are worse. You can find used MST3K episodes on the shelves of Barnes & Noble being sold as new ( once again no stickers ), as well as other television series in boxes that look worn and used despite being in shrinkwrap.

I think we have had this conversation before.... how are you buying on Amazon? I was behind on my sets and recently purchased a bunch to catch up all are from Amazon.

Spoiler

All of them at once from Amazon (no third party). All have the stickers, all have the posters, all are new.

[Edward J Grug III]

Yeah. I've never had that problem, and I buy mostly from Amazon.

[stethacantus]

I started another thread on this about a year ago

http://forum.rifftrax.com/index.php?topic=31176.msg923232#msg923232

But basically, if your DVD has this sticker on it....



...then it is new and if it does not...



...then it is used.   

Just a couple of days ago I was in the Barnes & Noble on 86 street and the shelf with the MST3K DVDs had a bunch of worn boxes with no stickers on the wrap, and new boxes with stickers, all being sold side by side for the same price.

All my MST3K sets came with the posters, even the used ones. I guess they are not really that valuable. I know I returned a few copies of Unbreakable to Amazon with worn below plastic boxes, all missing the limited edition collectable card that was suppose to be inside. So sometimes collectables are missing.

[stethacantus]

Hey, guess what? A CD I ordered from Amazon just arrived. And it is USED. I paid $35 for it because it was one of only two NEW copies left in stock of a CD that is OOP. I could have bought a used one for as little as $5. But no, I decided I wanted a new copy.  And the damn thing came without any factory seal and micro scratches all over the disc. So now I am going to be spending the next 40 minutes yelling at someone in India in order to get the refund.

[LucasM]

Got my set XXXVIII today in the mail (direct from SHOUT!).  In addition to the bonus disc were two sets of MST3K coasters!  (Both sets are the same.)  They're cheap cardboard things, but have pics from the poster art from MST3K releases.  The two on the outside of the set (not opening the sealed plastic bag, as I won't be using or displaying them) are for Final Justice and Fugitive Alien.  There are five coasters in the plastic.

Cool unexpected extra collectible there!

[k1]

Got my set XXXVIII today in the mail (direct from SHOUT!).  In addition to the bonus disc were two sets of MST3K coasters!  (Both sets are the same.)  They're cheap cardboard things, but have pics from the poster art from MST3K releases.  The two on the outside of the set (not opening the sealed plastic bag, as I won't be using or displaying them) are for Final Justice and Fugitive Alien.  There are five coasters in the plastic.

Cool unexpected extra collectible there!

You lucked out on the coasters! I preordered from Shout and didn't get them.

[Edward J Grug III]

I hate waiting for the next set to be announced, especially when any set could be the last one...