Wonder Woman (SPOILERS)

[Henry88]

'Wonder Woman' Will Shoot This Fall

[Darth Geek]

I still hate the look of the costume. But I'll at least wait until Superman vs Batman to see if the characterization of her is good. But I seriously doubt it.

[Kete]

Currently 96% on Rotten Tomatoes.  At most I thought this movie might be okay, but now I'm getting my hopes up.

[BathTub]

but now I'm getting my hopes up.

Don't do it! That only leads to disappointment haha.

[kunedog]

Good movie.  One of RedLetterMedia's compelling criticisms of the current Superman is that he often doesn't act much like a hero and fails to save millions.  The most endearing part of this Wonder Woman is that more than anyone else, she (convincingly) seems to care about everyone.  She's always talking about it, and constantly (if naively) looking for a way to fight to save someone.

AVGN approves (no spoilers except in the last minute): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSQL17y5zg8

[anais.butterfly]

It takes a lot to get me out of my PTSD bunker, but I did for Wonder Woman. It was fantastic! It's everywhere you want to be! (I'm not good at critiques).

[Henry88]

$225,505,000    
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=wonderwoman.htm

[Darth Geek]

If Disney hasn't announced development on a Black Widow movie by the end of the week, they've learned nothing.

[Kete]

If Disney hasn't announced development on a Black Widow movie by the end of the week, they've learned nothing.

I think they've already missed the boat on a Black Widow movie.  I would rather see them do something else.  Squirrel Girl, She-Hulk, Spider Woman, Ms Marvel.  Captain Marvel is already in the works.

But if you're talking Disney, I don't think you need to convince them that a woman can lead a successful movie.  They've been doing it for decades, and they've already converted Star Wars over to strong female leads.

[Darth Geek]

If Disney hasn't announced development on a Black Widow movie by the end of the week, they've learned nothing.

I think they've already missed the boat on a Black Widow movie. 

I agree, in that by the time it would come out they already would released Infinity War. But I'd still like them to at least work on it, indicating they understand the demand. Plus, Black Widow could be a spy movie done for around 60 million, it doesn't have to be a huge budget movie. So their investment and financial risk is minor compared to the others.

[Edward J Grug III]

OK, I don't get it. I really didn't enjoy Wonder Woman at all.

That's fine, everybody likes different things.

I don't at all understand WHAT people love about this movie.

Not that they enjoyed it, I guess (although I'm not even sure who they did that) but why people are foaming at the mouth and acting like it's an incredible film. This is going to be not very generous, but all I can think of is some combination of having extremely low expectations, and wanting to like it so much?

The first 30 mins is really dull exposition - voice over, world building, tedium. The worst kind of movie set up that takes me out of a movie every time.

The movie goes into slow motion at the drop of a hat (if some one dropped a hat, I guarantee it would be in slow motion).

The villains are laughable at best, with Dr Poison being both an offensive stereotype (a disfigured person for no reason, despite the character never being disfigured in the comics) and written and performed ridiculously. I have to assume the inevitable extended edition will include some backstory for her to justify the scarring?

The reveals (both who Ares was and what the Godkiller was) were both so plain that I can't imagine either surprising anyone.

The special effects look amazing until they look terrible. I'm sure that most of the CGI was so good it was imperceptible, but any time a character fell, or jumped through the air, it looked worse than Jimmy Stewart falling off the roof in Vertigo. The final fight scene with all the fire and Wonder Woman running around looked bonkers.

It also takes a very weirdly casual approach to killing the Germans at the point where Wonder Woman is still convinced that they are just under the control of Ares. I was sure in the bunker storming scene WW was going to be blocking the bullets of the English soldiers, but no, just go ahead and kill them.

I assume they focus on WWI because Marvel have already covered WWII, but I am left wondering did WWII happen in the DC movie universe then?

It had three or four moments of charm, but I honestly think they were the actors shining through rather than anything the movie was trying to do. Gal Gadot was really good, but Chris Pine is the MVP of that movie. I don't know who else was up for the role, but I don't know how I would have made it through if there was someone less charismatic playing him.

And despite it mostly doing a good job with the feminist message, Chris Pine sacrifices himself completely needlessly so that the man gets to have his moment in the spotlight too. Does anyone think for a second Dianna couldn't have taken care of that and lived? (Yes, I know that fired her up enough to defeat Ares, but that's a writing problem, not a reality problem)

All in all I thought it was the worst of Captain America First Avenger timed by the worst of Thor, with a dash of the Hobbit (which is all equal worst) through the ugly filter of the DCU. Agent Carter season one did anything this did better.

The only real kudos I can give it is, unlike the last two DC movies, it was comprehensible, and we are way past due to have a female super hero.

I didn't hate the movie, I was bored by it and I was let down.

I am, however, mad at the internet for tricking me into thinking I might like it. You win again, internet.

[kunedog]

Wonder Woman had the smallest opening weekend of the four DC Universe movies (no surprise, as the only flick without Supes or the Bat).  But check out those red numbers:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?view=weekend&id=dcuni.htm

Both of its subsequent weekend drops beat the other movies by at least TWENTY percentage points.  The slow burn is unreal, and because of it WW has a shot at being the top earner of the pack.  That's gotta be some fantastic word of mouth going on.

I don't at all understand WHAT people love about this movie.

Not that they enjoyed it, I guess (although I'm not even sure who they did that) but why people are foaming at the mouth and acting like it's an incredible film. This is going to be not very generous, but all I can think of is some combination of having extremely low expectations, and wanting to like it so much?

It does a few important things right.

• 
  It finally focuses on one superhero, in one self-contained origin story, instead of shoving five other future heros/movies down your throat.  I watched BvS in disbelief as WW sat at a laptop and essentially clicked one-by-one on Youtube videos Batman had emailed her of future teammates.
  



• 
  The leads are excellently cast.  Gadot's sincere portrayal is up there with Christopher Reeve's IMO (and through dumb luck, her accent even makes WW sound suitably "foreign").
  


• 
  IMO the fish-out-of-water stuff works better than in Thor, and it's not just for comedy but character development.  And since they make an effort to establish her intelligence and education and even her sociability ("But who would sing for us?"), you know her ignorance and awkardness won't last, unlike the arrogant Thor who will never fit in.
  


• 
  She has a serviceable character arch:
  
  
  
  • 
    Germans are evil (the "bad guys"), because of Ares' influence (basically believing exactly what she was told by Trevor and the Amazons).
    
  
  
  • 
    Humans are evil, because of Ares' influence (triggered when she allowed Trevor to stop her from saving the town from the superweapon gas, and by what the Chief told her).
    
  
  
  • 
    Humans are evil by their own choice, and irredeemable (triggered by Trevor's death).
    
  
  
  • 
    Humans can be both evil and good; it's up to them (triggered by Trevor's love).
    
  
  
  
  


• 
  ZERO product placement (IIRC).
  

And yes I'll concede that some of us (including me) are "grading on a curve," contrasting the movie with other female hero flicks (Catwoman, Supergirl, etc.) and other DCEU flicks (especially on the internet where people are more likely to know what the DCEU is) instead of with the gold standard Marvel CU. 

I agree the SFX are trash in parts, especially when she first steps onto No Man's Land and her frenzy when Trevor dies.  I read somewhere that Marvel gives directors a lot of expert assistance (or takes away control) when it comes to action scenes; maybe that would have helped.  I know he didn't direct, but I'm convinced the slow motion is Zach Snyder's influence.

It also takes a very weirdly casual approach to killing the Germans at the point where Wonder Woman is still convinced that they are just under the control of Ares. I was sure in the bunker storming scene WW was going to be blocking the bullets of the English soldiers, but no, just go ahead and kill them.

Yeah, that's a tricky moral problem: whether a hero should kill "villains" who are "evil" through no fault of their own, whereas if you managed to take them prisoner and kill Ares they would immediately become harmless.  But it's probably too complex a question for a superhero movie, and even then she might justify it by saving the civilians in the town.

I assume they focus on WWI because Marvel have already covered WWII, but I am left wondering did WWII happen in the DC movie universe then?

I think so.  Ares says he's deliberately negotiated an "an armistice that will not last," so by Fridge Logic he "won" in the end.

And despite it mostly doing a good job with the feminist message, Chris Pine sacrifices himself completely needlessly so that the man gets to have his moment in the spotlight too.

Taking an egalitarian rather than overzealously feminist route in both the film content and marketing is one of the best decisions the studio made.  That's one lesson Sony desperately needs to learn.

Does anyone think for a second Dianna couldn't have taken care of that and lived?

I do.  She knows about sailing but it's reasonable to assume she can't fly a plane (I wonder if the DCEU will bother with the invisble jet).  So she's immune to the gas, but how's she going to get rid of it without killing everyone on the ground?  And even if she could figure out some kind of safe disposal plan, she's busy with the only fight in the film that genuinely seems to endanger her personally.


So overall, I find the flaws quite forgivable and enjoyed myself even on a second viewing.  Warner Brothers has to be thrilled with the numbers, because they indicate that lots of people are going back and taking friends.  This movie is creating fans of the character that will show up for Justice League just to see her (and hopefully that doesn't end badly for them, but I fear the worst).

[Pak-Man]

She knows about sailing but it's reasonable to assume she can't fly a plane...

But she can ride a horse! By Battlefield Earth logic, she could pull it off!

[kunedog]

I did chuckle when they were showcasing the ancient, mystical, remote, invisible, and largely unreachable island, and the camera suddenly cuts to an armadillo.  Those things really are everywhere.

[Edward J Grug III]

I can't be bothered cutting and pasting into a cut and pasted answer - I hope my responses make sense.

* Focusing on one superhero is great, I guess, but man, what a low bar to pass.

* I agree the leads were great - As I said, it was the only thing that me got through it's endless run time.

* I thought the elements of fish out of water stuff were fine, when they happened. That covers a couple of the rare moments of charm the movie had. I didn't find a lack of charm or entertainment in the Thor movies, but I can understand why folks may not have enjoyed them.

* Serviceable is right, and again, a very low bar.

* Is product placement really a huge issue for the masses?

* I agree that the slow mo is because of Snyder and the studio style. I think anywhere the movie looked bad that was probably forced upon the film due to what had come before. It still stinks up this movie though.

* Killing mind-controlled humans is usually something hero movies DO frown on though, usually in an overly simplistic way. So this was like the worst of both worlds. Also she is against the idea of dealing with a bigger problem to save more people in the long run while sacrificing a few. Aren't those Germans part of the few? I felt like the movie treated them as sub human, which, when they are Nazis is one thing, when they are low level German soldiers, both following orders and under the control of a war god, it seems a bit on the nose.

* The idea of Ares negotiating a failing armistice makes no sense at all. Why would he want a stop to the war that will later fail?

* It's only 'egalitarian' if you look at it only in the context of this movie, which we both shouldn't and can't. We shouldn't because we have a history of films where the males are the heroes, the women are the set dressing or the object to be saved, and we can't because this exists within a shared universe, where this has never applied before, and I doubt will apply going forward. Having one movie where the male took a backseat doesn't come close to addressing all that came before.

* I didn't say she needed to fly the plane to save the day, I said she was capable of dealing with it. We also know the threat, while real, could have waited as for some reason the gas was on a timer. (Why it was on a timer I am not sure? If the plane had a delay taking off, they were just going to kill themselves?)

* I agree WB should be thrilled, and one hopes looking at what worked and trying to fix the dumpster fire of a franchise they have going forward, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't either.