Kevin...

[Tarantulas]

Mike (and any guests he may have) are not playing characters, they are just being themselves.

It's nice to remember the old days, but this really is major departure from the old shows format.

It's not MST 2.0 any more than Rocky Horror / Fire Sign Theater / Mad Movies / A.F.V. / Cheap Seats are.

[Locksley]

Yeah, Mike's riffing now is so much different than when he used to riff "in character" on MST3K. Man, what a departure. I bet he doesn't even wear the jumpsuit anymore.

I have no idea how Mike is in his real life, but I don't see that big of a difference between his riffing on MST3K and his Rifftrax work. The only real difference is that he doesn't always have someone to play off of.

I can see your point on Kevin or Bill, as they were obviously playing characters (did the puppets give it away?), and yes, Kevin was a bit more "unleashed" in his riffing. Sometimes it was for the better, in my opinion, sometimes not...but then again, it was always hit and miss even in the MST3K days (for everyone in the theater). Not every joke is going to appeal to every viewer.

I can't comment on the Bill Riff Trax yet, as I haven't had a chance to view them...but I am looking forward to it!

[Hank]

It's not MST 2.0 any more than Rocky Horror / Fire Sign Theater / Mad Movies / A.F.V. / Cheap Seats are.

They would be if they had the same cast and writers doing the exact same thing. And A.F.V. (America's Funniest Videos?) isn't the same game. The videos sent in are self-deprecating from the start. They're less "riffs" than simply set-ups.

Locksley said everything else in his first two paragraphs.


I just don't see anything wrong with it being V2.0, since it doesn't take anything away from it. Hell, right on the front page, it advertises MST3K, so the connection is definitely acknowledged.

[Tarantulas]

It's not MST 2.0.

Sorry.

Here's a good example:

Your buddy invites you to the ballpark to watch your local AAA ball club.  You get there and find out that they are out of town and its another two local teams doing an exhibition game.

It's still baseball, but is it your local AAA ball club?  No.  Do you still enjoy the game?  Yes.

Just because both teams play baseball, does it mean that the visiting teams are now magically your local club? I mean they both swing bats and run bases, and slide into home, right?

I suppose that A.F.V. is MST 2.0 as well.. I mean Trace and J. Elvis are staffers over there.

Frank did a special called "Attack of the Killer B Movies" with Elvira... I guess thats MST 2.0 as well.

Trace's "People Traps" on Animal Planet?  MST 2.0 I guess.

Rifftrax is just different... Sure its the same guy serving drinks, but it's a different bar.  TGI Fridays to be exact

As for the Mike Nelson "character" vs. Mike Nelson "real live person", read some of his literary efforts.  The line is slightly less foggy afterwards.

I now eagerly await the inevitable "whatever" and "page count" based comebacks and attacks that seem so popular with the young people today (what with their hula hoops, and "the Becks", and 20-skidoos)

[Locksley]

I'm really not trying to hassle you, Tarantulas. 

But...for the record, I have read a few of Mike's literary efforts...but that doesn't mean I know squat about his real life persona. Unless you hang with him on the weekends (and hey, maybe you do), I don't really think you're any more qualified than the next guy to tell me when he's in or out of character. Just my opinion. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I understand your point on Rifftrax being a new play on the old concept, and personally, I'm happy with whatever movies are riffed. I look back on the MST3K days with the greatest of fondness (I still watch them whenever I find time)...and I have thoroughly enjoyed the new spin of Rifftrax as well. Be it a good movie, a bad movie, an old movie, or a new release...I'm just happy Mike's continued this line of work.

[Tarantulas]

I'm really not trying to hassle you, Tarantulas.

Spirited conversation is NEVER a hassle.  It's why we are all here.

But...for the record, I have read a few of Mike's literary efforts...but that doesn't mean I know squat about his real life persona. Unless you hang with him on the weekends (and hey, maybe you do), I don't really think you're any more qualified than the next guy to tell me when he's in or out of character. Just my opinion. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

What most people take away as being Mike is what you see in interviews and his own written word.  I would hate to think that (even though they are filled with humor) the personal anecdotes from "Mind Over Matters" where simply made up for the purpose of a book.  But even lies are lined with a tiny bit of truth, right?

The character on MST seems like a flat version of the real Mike with a dopey edge that enders us to the character.

I met Mike in person once at at MST convention and he seemed like a very nice fellow.

I understand your point on Rifftrax being a new play on the old concept, and personally, I'm happy with whatever movies are riffed. I look back on the MST3K days with the greatest of fondness (I still watch them whenever I find time)...and I have thoroughly enjoyed the new spin of Rifftrax as well. Be it a good movie, a bad movie, an old movie, or a new release...I'm just happy Mike's continued this line of work.

On that point, we can all agree

[kodiakthejuggler]

Stick to what you do.


Mike riffs movies. He did it well in MST3K and he does it well with Rifftrax.


Deal with it.

[Joe Don Faker]

Kevin Murphy cursing people and calling for the deaths of cast members.

Well, his new book is called "Walter Koenig Must Die."  I think it is in poor taste, as I will have to now learn how to pronounce Koenig in order to discuss it.

Rifftrax is MST3K 2.0, just without the host segments.

Mike's riffing now is so much different than when he used to riff "in character" on MST3K. Man, what a departure.

It's not MST 2.0 any more than Rocky Horror / Fire Sign Theater / Mad Movies / A.F.V. / Cheap Seats are.

Let's see, head writer Mike Nelson wisecracks on movies.  With occasional guests Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett...

It's understandable that some think of this enterprise as MST 2.0.  To say it doesn't resemble MST any more than those other projects ... is like saying Hobgoblins doesn't resemble Gremlins any more than it resembles other Phoebe Cates movies.  (Sorry, that sentence was an excuse to juxtapose the most hideous thing I could think of and the most beautiful person I could think of.)

Anyway I think of it as the latest incarnation of MST, too ... until they throw Mike out, hire an aging bald comedian and turn Rifftrax into a lame but incredibly lucrative gameshow.  With Disembaudio as "The Dealer" ....

[Tarantulas]

It resembles MST in the same way that Cheap Seats does.  But that doesn't make Cheap Seats some sort of MST 2.0

Would there be the same reaction to this project if say Mary Jo (who several people on the board seem to dislike for whatever reason) would have launched a similar concept first?

She was a writer on MST3K for many years, but would people be wanting to call it MST 2.0?

The Film Crew seems to enjoy working together as evedent from their apearances on Starz and work on the Legend "3 Stooges" DVD. But does that make their efforts MST 2.0?

I mourn MST as much as anyone else, but it's time to let it go.

[gammer]

I mourn MST as much as anyone else, but it's time to let it go.

I second that.

Its great to see MST alumni doing somthing that they are good at and that they enjoy. I think the fan base rifftrax has proves that collectively we 'embrace' what they are doing and we are going to support it.

I must admit, at first I was angry when people tried to make this into MST 2.0, but now I realize thats just the way they see it and trying to convince them otherwise just makes them rear their backs and take defence to it.

If certain individuals want to 'shoe fit' this into MST 2.0, then so be it. The main thing we need to focus on is to spread the word about rifftrax and to continue to support it so it stays around for a while.

[Sharktopus]

I think the reason many people appear to dislike Mary Jo, in my humble opinion, is simply that the character of Pearl Forrester never really worked. The Clay's overbearing mother character was irritating and a poor replacement for the lovable TV's Frank and the obsessed VW bus-piloting villain was, well, just kinda dumb. I liked the concept of a would-be world-conquering mad scientist seeking accreditation, but Pearl was no Doctor F. It was an uphill battle from the start. But I don't think any other performer would've had it any easier. Just imagine if Crow was retired with Trace's departure and Bill was introduced as a new bot, or even worse, as another human along with Mike. We most likely would "dislike" him too. It's nothing personal. (I hope.)

I for one would love to hear Mary Jo on a RiffTrax. (We really need a singular form for that. RiffTrak maybe? Sounds like a subsidized railroad...)

[Cap'n UKRiffer]

I think the reason many people appear to dislike Mary Jo, in my humble opinion, is simply that the character of Pearl Forrester never really worked. The Clay's overbearing mother character was irritating and a poor replacement for the lovable TV's Frank and the obsessed VW bus-piloting villain was, well, just kinda dumb. I liked the concept of a would-be world-conquering mad scientist seeking accreditation, but Pearl was no Doctor F. It was an uphill battle from the start. But I don't think any other performer would've had it any easier. Just imagine if Crow was retired with Trace's departure and Bill was introduced as a new bot, or even worse, as another human along with Mike. We most likely would "dislike" him too. It's nothing personal. (I hope.)

I for one would love to hear Mary Jo on a RiffTrax. (We really need a singular form for that. RiffTrak maybe? Sounds like a subsidized railroad...)

I agree with Sharky, though i think she started to hit her stride once she was in the castle and she could play of Observer and Bobo better, it came together better, like an anti-Mike & The Bots type group.

I'd also like to hear Mary Jo on a RiffTrak (TM, Sharktopus Ltd), would be something different.

[Tarantulas]

I must admit, at first I was angry when people tried to make this into MST 2.0, but now I realize thats just the way they see it and trying to convince them otherwise just makes them rear their backs and take defence to it.

I'm guessing these are the same people that fought the Mike vs. Joel "war" all those years ago.

I'd say its highly likely that they also form sentences that end in "cold, dead fingers" on a semi regular basis.

[Pak-Man]

Basically if you take MST3K, remove the shorts and puppets and character acting you have Rifftrax. You hafta go quite a bit further to make it into an AFV.
Rifftrax is like distilled MST3K. They've cut out all the other elements and left only the fundamental element central to MST3K, and then they kept the head writer/riffer for half the show's life and put him in charge. It doesn't take a shoehorn to fit it into the MST3K mold. Even the Fanbase (From every case I've seen so far) is made up entirely of people who were in the MST3K fanbase, and if anyone reading this ISN'T in the fanbase, I reccomend checking it out. You'll find it very similar. :^)

As for people MAKING this MST3K, that's not up to us lowly posters. :^) We aren't making this anything at all. Our input seems to be valued by the Riffstaff, and that's awesome, but the poll results have also shown us that the Riffstaff knows what's best for Rifftrax better than we do, and if the two demands conflict, they're calling the shots.

So far the only, "That's too different from MST3K!" complaint that I heard was on the topic of swearing. Swearing was more of an issue with the FCC. If you removed those restrictions, there probably would have been some light cussing in MST3K. For proof of this, check out MST3K the movie! (Whoop-De-S***!) MST3K, while frequently family friendly, never shied away from raunchy humor when it was the right time. They weren't all South Park about it, (Not that I don't like South Park) and neither is Rifftrax, but if they could draw attention to a batch shot, or make a sex-related joke, or even call for the actors deaths (It happened a LOT in MST3K!) they'd do it.

So to conclude, is this MST3K2? Naw. I'd prefer to think of it as MST3K Lite. All the flavor of MST3K, without the puppet calories. :^)

[Hank]

So to conclude, is this MST3K2? Naw. I'd prefer to think of it as MST3K Lite. All the flavor of MST3K, without the puppet calories. :^)

You may be on to something there.



Also, it's nothing like going to a stadium and the regular baseball players aren't there. It's closer to going to see your team play, and they've changed their name.

I don't see why there is such hatred for the comparison anyway.

Basically:

MST3K = Great
Rifftrax = Great

So, it's all good (or great).