Star Trek Into Darkness

[Routing Protocols]

I want the talky Trek so of course I'll have to allow for big screen mass-market Trek.  On that basis i thought it was very good.

My favorite part was how Pike lectured them on the Prime Directive.  Kirk says "So they saw a ship, whats the worst that could happen?", and then they show the aliens toss their sacred religious scroll away and start drawing the ship in the dirt.  LOLOL

also the laughs in the movie were all funny and good and the effects were good.  The part where he communicates with old school Spock about the Ricardo Montelban Kahn was totally awesome.  I didn't expect that.  They had the original theme during the credits which is cool. 

Awesome movie, but still not QUITE as awesome as the first one.

[Sugar Ray Dodge]

I know I'm largely alone on this, but...

I always thought the Prime Directive was pretty stupid. Not so much as a plot device, which Star Trek uses way too much, especially in Next Gen, but more as irresponsible foreign policy as far as the Federation is concerned. All species have an effect on each other. It's nature, and space is part of nature. And it's not only found in nature, but amongst human societies as well. Throughout the history of the world, civilizations have had profound impact on one another, and since the aliens in Star Trek are essentially humans in all but name, this principle would naturally apply to them as well. It's naive to think that that we can't or shouldn't have an effect on other civilizations. By the very knowledge of their existence, the alien civilizations have an effect on Federation civilizations, even if the Federation tries not to effect them. It never made much sense to me to completely remove yourself from advancing the progress of other societies. We wouldn't be where we are today if our ancestors all decided to keep to themselves. We have benefited greatly by influencing one another. I would argue that the world would be a very primitive place if the "prime directive" existed in real life.

/stuff nobody cares about.

[Tripe]

Yeah, it's based on some genuine disasters of advanced tech meeting less technologically advanced societies throughout the history of human exploration.

[Sugar Ray Dodge]

I dunno. I mean, I get what you're saying, and it's a fair argument, but there's still something that really bugs me about that being RULE #1, in addition to what I already said. It all just seems a little off to me. Like these people are kind of worried about the wrong stuff. But that's just me. The PD will always be a personal irritant for me, probably because I'm stubborn and I think I'm right about everything

[Fleetwoof]

I have to agree, the Prime Directive sucks.  If it wasn't for the Prime Directive we'd be teleporting, mind-melding, and using replicators right now.

[Fleetwoof]

travel without fossil fuels?  empathy?  instant food anywhere for anyone?  capitalism would collapse and the republican problem would finally be solved.  If they don't like it they can go join the Ferengi, where they belong.  Looks like win/win to me.

[Sugar Ray Dodge]

So only Americans live on earth. Didn't know that!

In the world of Star Trek, all planets have but a single culture and civilization, so I guess so.

And, Fleetwoof, you're right. No evil dictators or criminals would exist in such a scenario, so you're golden. ...wait a minute, I'm being issued a correction. They would. Never mind.

[Trekker4747]

I know I'm largely alone on this, but...

I always thought the Prime Directive was pretty stupid. Not so much as a plot device, which Star Trek uses way too much, especially in Next Gen, but more as irresponsible foreign policy as far as the Federation is concerned. All species have an effect on each other. It's nature, and space is part of nature. And it's not only found in nature, but amongst human societies as well. Throughout the history of the world, civilizations have had profound impact on one another, and since the aliens in Star Trek are essentially humans in all but name, this principle would naturally apply to them as well. It's naive to think that that we can't or shouldn't have an effect on other civilizations. By the very knowledge of their existence, the alien civilizations have an effect on Federation civilizations, even if the Federation tries not to effect them. It never made much sense to me to completely remove yourself from advancing the progress of other societies. We wouldn't be where we are today if our ancestors all decided to keep to themselves. We have benefited greatly by influencing one another. I would argue that the world would be a very primitive place if the "prime directive" existed in real life.

/stuff nobody cares about.

I'm a fan of what I call the "Prime Suggestion."  On the surface the Prime Directive makes sense, you don't go to some alien planet, beam down, tell them aliens exist and then give them technology centuries beyond their reach.  That much should be obvious, but there are clearly times and cases where you can step in and do "something" to prevent bad things from happening.  Which is where the Prime Suggestion comes in and it's played nicely in the episode "Pen Pals" in TNG's second season.  In this episode Data, through communication with a little girl inhabitant, learns of a planet about to be destroyed by its own crappy geology. When trying to decide what to do about the information they have Picard and the entire senior staff sits down and discuss things out on what action to take.  Ultimately they decide to step in and correct the planet so it won't destroy itself.  This can, largely, be done without the inhabitants knowledge.  Now, other than some of the actions taken by Data in the episode that ends up with his little pen pal (Get it? GET IT?!) ending up on the ship (though her memories are eventually erased) the "Prime Suggestion" is played out nicely.

On the movie.... Who-boy do I have my problems with it.  As a movie it's good, popcorn, entertainment, As a Star Trek movie? Huge problems. BIG Problems. And it takes on challenges it's not nearly adult enough to handle.  Sort of like a kindergärtner  making his father a nice breakfast on father's day.  You know he tried, you know it looks like and tastes like ass but only because he took on too great a challenge.  The heart was there, just not the know-how.

Here's something that occurred to me in the movie without getting too much into spoilers.

So the Enterprise arrives in orbit around the Moon for the final confrontation. It gets damaged and eventually the engines knocked out so the ship begins spiraling out of control at the whims of gravity.  Not towards the Moon but towards... Earth?! And it doesn't arrive at Earth days, months or possibly even YEARS latter as it should if the only movement it had was based on gravity (under propulsion it takes present-day rocketry days to get to the Moon) but takes a matter of MINUTES.  Complete and utter HORSE****!!! And proof that the incompetent writers have no clue on what they're talking about or doing. (But this much was clear after how they treated black holes in the first movie.)

[Sugar Ray Dodge]

You're not supposed to think about the stuff you are in that last paragraph.

I know I've said it before, but Peter Weller's character was too much of a bad Dick Cheney caricature. I didn't mind it so much the second time around, but the first time around it just stuck out too much. They really could have handled that aspect/theme of the movie in a more balanced fashion and still have reached the same moral conclusion. But that's nitpicking, and I don't particularly want to get into a full blown political discussion about it, because those never end well and leaves everybody pissed off at each other. It's not worth antagonizing half the board over things we aren't gonna budge on anyway, so I'll just leave it at "I wish they'd have taken a more balanced approach."

And as for the PD in this movie...

The only thing that really happened was they SAVED a civilization and exposed the Enterprise. I don't get how that negatively impacts the culture. In fact, if the PD hadn't been violated, they albino cavemen would have been wiped out and their culture erased. Only good things happened, but, again, that was probably the point anyway.

[Trekker4747]

You're not supposed to think about the stuff you are in that last paragraph.

I know I've said it before, but Peter Weller's character was too much of a bad Dick Cheney caricature. I didn't mind it so much the second time around, but the first time around it just stuck out too much. They really could have handled that aspect/theme of the movie in a more balanced fashion and still have reached the same moral conclusion. But that's nitpicking, and I don't particularly want to get into a full blown political discussion about it, because those never end well and leaves everybody pissed off at each other. It's not worth antagonizing half the board over things we aren't gonna budge on anyway, so I'll just leave it at "I wish they'd have taken a more balanced approach."

And as for the PD in this movie...

The only thing that really happened was they SAVED a civilization and exposed the Enterprise. I don't get how that negatively impacts the culture. In fact, if the PD hadn't been violated, they albino cavemen would have been wiped out and their culture erased. Only good things happened, but, again, that was probably the point anyway.

Yeah, but saving the civilization had exactly the impact that the Prime Directive is designed to protect. We see it happen, afterwards the aliens worshiped the Enterprise as a god (The writers casting their thoughts on Trekkies in the movie as a slight against people who're against changes in the franchise?).  We also see this happen -much better executed- in the TNG episode "Who Watches the Watchers."    There's also the argument of letting "nature take its course" because there's no way to know what impact changes might have.  Say some aliens stopped by our planet 64 million years ago and decided to stop an asteroid from impacting Earth? That would have had MASSIVE impact on the way our planet and life would develop.

In the movie, what would have happened if the Enterprise was a day or two later on passing that planer? Nature would have taken its course.   Was intervening the "right thing to do", perhaps. But not at the cost of exposing themselves.

[eegah]

I'm a fan of what I call the "Prime Suggestion."

"Prime Subjective"?

more like "Prime Defective", amiright? who's with me?

[BBQ Platypus]

I was spoiled about the "big secret" before I saw the film.  (Didn't bother me - my general policy is that if a spoiler ruins the movie, then it must not have been a very good movie to begin with).  When I heard about it, there was one thing I really, REALLY didn't want them to do -

have someone yell out Khan's name.

When they did it, I muttered "Oh, Jesus Christ" into my palm.

This movie is watchable insofar as it moves along quickly and doesn't drag.  There are some funny moments, and I do like Zachary Quinto as nu-Spock.  But somehow it managed to be an even more cynically constructed endeavor than I was expecting it to be.  I mean, it doesn't surprise me that the only idea the people who made this film could come up with was to remake Wrath of Khan in the laziest way possible.  But does it really have to be so blatant and shameless about it?  Could it at least bother to do it well?  I mean, if you're going to invite comparisons to the most beloved Star Trek film (even if I personally only consider it my third-favorite), at least make sure you're up to the task.

While I don't completely loathe these movies, they still come across as all dressed up with nowhere to go.  It has all the superficial trappings of Star Trek - it has all the Star Trek characters who say all their Star Trek catchphrases and do all the Star Trek things they're famous for saying and doing on Star Trek.  But it doesn't have anything to say other than "Hey, look at me - I'm Star Trek!"  And that's a shame.

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, that moment was too far and just out of place. I mean, they DO know Spock is supposed to be fairly un-emotional, right?  I sort of face-palmed too at that moment. 

[Sugar Ray Dodge]

Yeah, that moment was too far and just out of place. I mean, they DO know Spock is supposed to be fairly un-emotional, right?  I sort of face-palmed too at that moment.

Somebody get the anti-Canon drug from Dr. Who!

[Pak-Man]

Finally got to see it today. I haven't been here for the whole conversation, RE: The Prime Directive, but I'll weigh in:

The reason the Prime Directive was violated, from a storytelling perspective, was to parallel Khan. Kirk thinks he's better than the rules, plays God, figures it's OK because nobody got hurt. Khan also thinks he's better than the rules, plays god, and things go less well. Both people violated it in order to save their crew, but just because they felt like they did the right thing doesn't mean they did the right thing.