COMING SOON - OVER THE TOP!

[gammer]

The problem we see is really just due to the flash video conversion. Just trust me on this one   The source files are beautiful lol

I know the source would be good. Because the source is the original MPEG file off the DVD.

And you are correct in that it is in the flash video coversion. What are you using to convert it to flash? There should be an option to inverse telecine the video. Because basically what you are doing is re-encoding the original source file...and when you encode you should have an option to preform the inverse telecine.

Also I have a feeling we are talking about 2 things here: combing (interlace lines) and artifacts. The artifacts are caused by using a low bitrate in the flash conversion...thats normal. The combing lines are what I'm referring to.

The inverse telecine takes the movie back to its 'progressive' format that it was in before it was converted to a MPG file for a DVD. That way you can watch the video on a progressive monitor (computer monitor) without those combing lines showing up.

Anyways, this is getting too geeky for the average bear, so no need to worry. All's I'm saying is the flash conversion is not adding the combing (interlace) lines. The artifacts (blockyness) is just there because of the low bitrate...which is acceptable for downloads like this.

[J-Proof]

The problem we see is really just due to the flash video conversion. Just trust me on this one   The source files are beautiful lol

I know the source would be good. Because the source is the original MPEG file off the DVD.

And you are correct in that it is in the flash video coversion. What are you using to convert it to flash? There should be an option to inverse telecine the video. Because basically what you are doing is re-encoding the original source file...and when you encode you should have an option to preform the inverse telecine.

Also I have a feeling we are talking about 2 things here: combing (interlace lines) and artifacts. The artifacts are caused by using a low bitrate in the flash conversion...thats normal. The combing lines are what I'm referring to.

The inverse telecine takes the movie back to its 'progressive' format that it was in before it was converted to a MPG file for a DVD. That way you can watch the video on a progressive monitor (computer monitor) without those combing lines showing up.

Anyways, this is getting too geeky for the average bear, so no need to worry. All's I'm saying is the flash conversion is not adding the combing (interlace) lines. The artifacts (blockyness) is just there because of the low bitrate...which is acceptable for downloads like this.

Nah, we're talking about the same issue. The source files, when converted to flv, creates combing lines and artifacts to the video. There is no option to inverse telecine when performing the video conversion in flash, and there's no way to solve the interlacing issue in flash, which is why the problem exists. If we did it the way you do it, then we wouldn't have combing lines, however, the benefits of using flvs requires us to stick with it, regardless of combing lines and artifacts.

[EDIT]
The issue most likely has to do with pulldown removal which doesn't always work depending on how DVDs are authored. In some clips, this is evident, while in other clips, our removal procedure worked just fine and there are no field issues.

[kodiakthejuggler]

The problem we see is really just due to the flash video conversion. Just trust me on this one   The source files are beautiful lol

I know the source would be good. Because the source is the original MPEG file off the DVD.

And you are correct in that it is in the flash video coversion. What are you using to convert it to flash? There should be an option to inverse telecine the video. Because basically what you are doing is re-encoding the original source file...and when you encode you should have an option to preform the inverse telecine.

Also I have a feeling we are talking about 2 things here: combing (interlace lines) and artifacts. The artifacts are caused by using a low bitrate in the flash conversion...thats normal. The combing lines are what I'm referring to.

The inverse telecine takes the movie back to its 'progressive' format that it was in before it was converted to a MPG file for a DVD. That way you can watch the video on a progressive monitor (computer monitor) without those combing lines showing up.

Anyways, this is getting too geeky for the average bear, so no need to worry. All's I'm saying is the flash conversion is not adding the combing (interlace) lines. The artifacts (blockyness) is just there because of the low bitrate...which is acceptable for downloads like this.

Dang, I'm totally geeking out!!!

I would say "Sad part is, I know what they're talking about", but I'm not sad about that! I'm proud to be able to follow this conversation. 

This reminds me, there was a person here at work that kept calling High Definition(TV) "High Density". We just chuckled about it. It could be called High Density, because essentially that's what it means: a denser pixel count. It's just not industry terminology.

Being a geek is fun. 

[gammer]

Nah, we're talking about the same issue. The source files, when converted to flv, creates combing lines and artifacts to the video. There is no option to inverse telecine when performing the video conversion in flash, and there's no way to solve the interlacing issue in flash, which is why the problem exists. If we did it the way you do it, then we wouldn't have combing lines, however, the benefits of using flvs requires us to stick with it, regardless of combing lines and artifacts.

Then I have a solution:

Take the source file, re-encode it to mpeg2 (yes the same format that its already in), but do an inverse telecine on it.

Now the video is in its progressive form again and take the new mpeg2 and use it to make your flash file.

There are lots of free video encoders that preform this. I use TMPGEnc for mpeg2 encoding.

[BEERxTaco]

Was it recorded in Dubly?   

[gammer]

P.S J-Proof,

The Riva FLV encoder deinterlaces (option on the right side):



Edit: I'm not trying to be a 'dick', I'm just trying to be helpful.

[J-Proof]

There are lots of free video encoders that preform this. I use TMPGEnc for mpeg2 encoding.

Yeah that's exactly what we use. Great encoder. The video format that we wind up with before flash conversion is the result, pretty much, of the process you have just spoken of. That being said, "Over The Top's" clip shows some pretty nasty horizontal combs. Your Diagnosis of the problem is correct: that Flash is displaying the 3-2 of the video all whacky - so this we agree on

The issue usually is: Not all dvd source material has easy 3-2 removal. Anyway, I didn't work on this clip, so it's likely that the process the other dudes used to make this clip doesn't follow the usual protocol. So - we'll take a look at all of our clips and see which ones have a whacky 3-2 issue and need re-rendering and encoding. Thanks for the concern =)

Thanks for the RIVA suggestion as well. We're gonna try to get it in house asap. I was incorrect in word chocie when I said Flash "adds" the combing artifacts - it simply "displays" them. If the video was put under the proper editing procedure, then the combing lines, if any, would be the result of a tricky 3-2 that couldn't be removed cleanly - which is what I assumed happened. We just took a look at this specific clip over again, and saw that it was edited incorrectly. The issue has swiftly, like a ninja in the night, been corrected, and we'll try to keep an eye on each clip that gets produced.

[J-Proof]

Hey gammy gam -

Check out the clip now, I think it's perrrrrrrrdy

[kodiakthejuggler]

Hey gammy gam -

Check out the clip now, I think it's perrrrrrrrdy

Looks gorgeous. What's the difference in file size?

[J-Proof]

Hey gammy gam -

Check out the clip now, I think it's perrrrrrrrdy

Looks gorgeous. What's the difference in file size?

Virtually no diff actually!

[gammer]

In the long run the clip that has been inversed telecined will be about 15-20% smaller (24 fps). But you'd need a long video file to notice this difference.
A file that has been deinterlaced will be the same size as it is still 29.97 fps

[J-Proof]

In the long run the clip that has been inversed telecined will be about 15-20% smaller (24 fps). But you'd need a long video file to notice this difference.
A file that has been deinterlaced will be the same size as it is still 29.97 fps

Correcto-mundo - with the 3-2 pulldown removal, the file size difference is quite miniscule

[gammer]

Doode.
I just checked out the Over The Top clip and it looks SWEET! Seriously, it looks really good.
Now all we need to do is work on your video size so the people don't look stretchy... 

You can PM me for that advice. 

[FrensaGeran]

Man, those Rifftrax guys sure were swell to release this trax today rather than Friday as a Valentine's Day present.

We love you too!

(p.s. they haven't done this actually, I just wanted them to feel bad and then possibly do what I've implied would be the most virtuous action)

(p.p.s Rifftrax Guys don't read the p.s.) 

[macleod]

As much as I love the riffs, I'm very thankful that Mike's been able to average one each week.

It gives me something extra to look forward to on the weekend.