I'm getting a little tired of all these recent movies.

[Doc Steve]

I'm not  too worried about the scenario you describe.  But it all boils down to not being able to make everyone happy.  There are plenty of people out there who enjoy what we've been doing, and hopefully we'll be able to do some stuff to entice other peoples taste in the future.

It all comes back to Bill's original post.  Just think about what he said, that maybe 80% less people are interested in a Glitter than a Transformers.  Is that a fact that should be ignored?  Or should we routinely produce something that 4/5ths of our fans have no interest in?

I appreciate your level headedness in your above post.  I'm not trying to willfully ignore anyones question, and I don't want to come off as aloof.  But it can be hard for me to get things across in an appropriate way in this type of setting.

I reread both threads in their entirety.  (As you can tell from my earlier posts, I was familiar with the Bill Corbett thread.)  It is clear to me that we are not communicating at all.  The threads you linked to could be described as such:  1) I/we like older movies better; 2) Why don't you do more older movies?  That's not where I am coming from, at all.

My Real Point:

I began taping MST3K in 1990.  I survived multiple cast changes, thousands (it seems) time-slot changes, and even a change to another cable network.  I have purchased all of the official DVDs, all of the Film Crew DVDs, all of the Cinematic Titanic DVDs, all of the books, and most of the merchandise.  At present, I have purchased roughly half of the Rifftrax.

I am a dedicated fan saying: Rifftrax No More.  IMHO, many of the feature-length Rifftrax lately have seemed stale, lackluster, and unfunny.  I choose to believe that this is because the movie selections have been stale, lackluster, and too similar.  Maybe I'm wrong, and the problem is me, or the writing, or my addicition to specialty breads.  I choose to be kind and blame the source material.  

You can brush that away with "you can't please all of the people all of the time."  I don't expect anyone to kow-tow to me on a public forum; that's for sure.  However, am I a random outlier, or am I a sign of things to come?  I understand your position, but it definitely comes across as aloof.  I understand that is not your intent, but you really have no choice.  As someone working on the projects, I don't expect for you to break down and confess that Rifftrax is getting stale, even assuming I am 100% correct.  I don't even know which movies to which you have contributed, so I have no idea if I have been walking all over you or not.  



If anyone reading this thinks everything that Rifftrax has ever done is all good, and all equally good, then you might as well skip the rest of this post.  


The reason I participated in this thread is that I feel the short-term approach is going to kill Rifftrax in the long run.  IMHO, I believe the current business plan is flawed, and here's why...

Some Quick Points:

1.  Garbage in = garbage out.  Not to be an ass, but I think the data set is flawed.  First, it's way too small for proper analysis.  We are only looking at approximately 70 releases over a 28 month period.  Most of the "worst sellers" have major strikes against them other than age, per se.  Assuming that the base of sales has grown over time, the fact that an older movie has not been done in a while poses problems in terms of an actual prediction.

2.  Over time, quality will outperform an inferior product.  For example, the best selling album in 1969 by 1969 sales was Iron Butterfly's In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.  It should come as no surprise that Abbey Road (also released in 1969) has outsold it over the years.  

3.  I would like to know if anyone in the entire interwebs would seriously argue that Rifftrax to older films like Star Wars IV: A New Hope or E.T. wouldn't pay their own freight.  

4.  I didn't ask for old movies, I didn't ask for creature features, I didn't ask for Dune, I didn't ask for Red Dawn, and I didn't ask for the "missing" Ed Wood films.  I asked for some small token of variety in the form of a feature-length film with all three riffers.  I say it again:  How many times did Rifftrax preside over the destruction of NYC in 2008 alone?  

5.  Rifftrax is no longer the only game in town.  Before, you were needlessly competing with yourself.  Now you are also competing with other commercial projects like Cinematic Titanic.  People can spin this however they want, but the truth is pretty simple.  Every dollar spent on Cinematic Titanic is a potential lost Rifftrax sale (and vice versa).  I may be dead wrong, but I would bet my last dollar that Riiftrax will follow the MST3K pattern.  That is, a cult following, then a period of major growth, and finally, a plateau.  I think that's just the nature of the beast with riffing.  

6.  With the current pace of releases, money should not be a major object.  If it is, you need to hire a new tax preparer.  Having one absolute bomb a year can be very useful.  

7.  For the record, I am not equating myself with George Harrison.  I'm not even as cool as George Martin.  

EDIT:  To clarify, I am not suggesting that you have been less than honest.  I simply mean that I don't expect someone to criticize their employer, co-workers, or workplace on a public internet forum ran by their employer...   It's hard NOT to seem aloof in that situation. 

[Conor]

In all honesty, my advice would be that if our comedy is working you up this much, you should probably take a break.  We'll still be here when you get back, and hopefully by then we'll have done something you're more interested in.  It's just an idea.  Perhaps putting too much thought into why we've picked the movies we choose and how we're running things here is making the whole experience less fun for you.

AGAIN:  not trying to be a dick.  I appreciate your dedication and concern.  But a break is probably in order when parallels to in-a-gadda-da-vida spring readily to your mind.

[Conor]

To reiterate, I'm not telling anyone "We don't need you!!!"  I'm grateful for everyone who's ever taken the time to enjoy our stuff, as well as taking the time to post about it here.  But I do think it's possible to overthink yourself out of enjoying it. 

I've heard it phrased more eloquently somewhere else....where was that?   

[James of LinHood]

To reiterate, I'm not telling anyone "We don't need you!!!" 

Really?  We're asking for Mike, Kevin, and Bill to riff older movies/movies with more variety now and then.  A couple of us are also no longer buying your newer Rifftrax as a form of protest.  We let that be known yet we're basically told "Tough luck" by you guys.  You'd rather cater to those who eat up the newer movies.  So, you are basically telling us that you don't need us.  Unless there is a change in the types of movies that Rifftrax riffs that's a message that you will continue to spread.  After all, actions speak a lot louder than your words.

BTW, I'm not being whiny.  That's just my analysis of the situation.

[Conor]

Well again, if a criteria that you've established for how we should be doing things is preventing you from enjoying something like The Happening, it's too bad.  I don't know what kind of response you want from me.

[bratpop]

Incidentally, George Harrison hated using the word "grotty."

Also, if it takes more than a week to prepare a delicious plate of Rifftrax, then I'm REALLY confused as to how you get the movies out on the day the DVD is released.

[gammer]

Also, if it takes more than a week to prepare a delicious plate of Rifftrax, then I'm REALLY confused as to how you get the movies out on the day the DVD is released.

I'm sure everything RiffTrax does is very legit, but don't ever ask that question... 

Just accept that they release stuff on the same day as the DVD is released, so they can do it again in the future and we can enjoy it on that very same day.

Who knows, maybe because they are in the movie business, they are able to get advanced copies...who knows 

[bratpop]

Actually I believe they memorize the entire film to the nanosecond, because they are robots.

[gammer]

Actually I believe they memorize the entire film to the nanosecond, because they are robots.

Yes, that is probably the most realistic explanation.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Also, if it takes more than a week to prepare a delicious plate of Rifftrax, then I'm REALLY confused as to how you get the movies out on the day the DVD is released.

I'm sure everything RiffTrax does is very legit, but don't ever ask that question... 

Yeah, it could never be that the film makers are specifically sending the movies to them to get them to riff it and therefore boost their own rentals and sales.....

But every form of entertainment (movies, TV, sports) tells the fans to "take it or leave it" at some point when the fans suggest that things have gone awry.

Trek for example has done it for years.  And they're still shocked that the fans actually took their advice and went away.  Who needs who?

[bratpop]

What's ironic?

Go on then...

Ten years ago, people were saying, "I'm getting a little tired of all these black and white movies."

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Ten years ago, people were saying, "I'm getting a little tired of all these black and white movies."

The only ones I remember complaining about that were Mike and the Bots and anyone 18 and under.

And who says "not recent" means black and white?

[Edward J Grug III]

To reiterate, I'm not telling anyone "We don't need you!!!" 

Really?  We're asking for Mike, Kevin, and Bill to riff older movies/movies with more variety now and then.  A couple of us are also no longer buying your newer Rifftrax as a form of protest.  We let that be known yet we're basically told "Tough luck" by you guys.  You'd rather cater to those who eat up the newer movies.  So, you are basically telling us that you don't need us.  Unless there is a change in the types of movies that Rifftrax riffs that's a message that you will continue to spread.  After all, actions speak a lot louder than your words.

BTW, I'm not being whiny.  That's just my analysis of the situation.

The few of you who have stopped buying in "protest" though, DON'T equal the 80% difference in sales.

It's like Conor, Bill etc etc have been saying, they are doing what the MAJORITY of the fans want.

If it isn't working for you, you might have to start looking elsewhere.

[Doc Steve]

Well again, if a criteria that you've established for how we should be doing things is preventing you from enjoying something like The Happening, it's too bad.  I don't know what kind of response you want from me.

I don't want any response if all I am receiving is condecension and denigration of my intelligence. 

How about, "I'll make sure that the creative people are aware of this." 

[Edward J Grug III]

Do you honestly think they aren't?

Bill himself has participated in these threads.