I'm getting a little tired of all these recent movies.

[gammer]

Well, be fair.  Rifftrax has always had a "pet joke" that gets into virtually every episode made for a considerable stretch.  Schnappi was the first, but that eventually got retired.  Kelsey Grammer's driving was the successor, but now that's given way to Nick Nolte.

Don't forget "Bacon".

I think that Rifftrax has been trying to provide some older movies with Rifftrax Presents and iRiffs, not to mention the shorts. 

The flaw in that reasoning is that shorts are not the same as full length movies.  Also, none of "The Big Three" will be doing any iRiffs (obviously).  Lastly, in some cases (Like Dirty Dancing) none of The Big Three even riff the older films.  They get no-namers to riff them instead.

Some of us would just like Mike, Kevin, and Bill to riff older full length movies.  That's all.

Thanks for pointing this out James. I think this has been quite obvious for some time now. And the Dirty Dancing release was probably the biggest 'slap in the face' to the fans. Seeing since Mike did say in an interview that "yes" he would riff Dirty Dancing.
I think that example right there shows that 'the big 3' wont be in any rush to riff older movies.

It comes back to the same old thing though...money. I don't think the older movies bring in enough cash to cover the big 3 riffing it. The older movies probably do all right when its a rifftrax presents (with 2 riffers). I mean, I don't blame them for riffing on what sells; they need to keep the business a float. But sometimes you can't always look at the bottom line.

My personal preference would be that if they are going to riff newer movies, that they riff the ones that provide the 'best overall rifftrax package'. I felt The Happening and Indy 4 did this. But maybe some of the other newer riffed movies didn't. Thats not to say they weren't funny, but overall they might not have been the best choice.

[James of LinHood]

The thing that's always baffled me about TPTB's stance on this situation is that they seem to flat-out refuse to riff any older movies anymore.  As if riffing one older movie now and then will run Rifftrax into the ground.  Yet, in previous years they riffed quite a few older movies and were still able to stay afloat. 

It's just bizarre that they won't throw a bone to the fans on this board.  You're telling me that after riffing movie after movie that supposedly sell extremely well that you guys can't afford to take a bit of a financial hit by riffing an older movie like R.e.d. D.a.w.n. once in awhile?  Really?  Not even for your hardcore fans?

[Doc Steve]

IMHO, Crossroads and Glitter are probably the two funniest Rifftrax.  You can walk into any used video store in the country and find these DVDs for less than $5.  Obviously, "access" is not a problem. 

Unfortunately, "access" usually seems like it boils down to pulling it off your shelf.  If you were able to package a riff with glitter, or crossroads, or a shaw bros movie, it would probably be a different story. 

I talked about this alot in this thread last week, and I eventually feel like I talk myself into circles.

http://forrestcrow.proboards47.com/index.cgi?board=rifftrax&action=display&thread=16311&page=2#712199

Please take a look.  The main points that I'd take from it are:

We're not going to be able to make everyone happy.  If your criteria for what you think we should be riffing is old movies, keep in mind that for some people it is bad movies, and for some people it is old bad movies and for some people it is recent hits and for some people it is recent flops.  The majority of these people don't post their thoughts on this forum.  If your criteria prevents you from enjoying something like The Happening just because it is new, that's too bad.

Your comments regarding pacing, I'm not sure I agree on them.  Probably because I know how long it takes to write, rehearse and record a RiffTrax.  Just because a series of Riffs like Iron Man, The Happening and IJ4 come out a week apart does not mean that each one just  took a week to create.  There's a long period of time leading up to the recording of each one, which is itself a relatively short part of the process.  Once you have them recorded, there isn't any sense on sitting on them for months, since once they're out, people can choose to watch riffed movies at any pace they want.

I think you are "reading into" what I have written, rather than addressing some valid criticism.   To be fair, I will read the older thread after this.  However....

The problem is not the age of the movies.  The problem is not the production values of the movies.  The problem is not the perceived quality of the movies.  The problem is the SAMENESS of the movies.  On MST3K, you had literally no idea what to expect next week, because the film could be domestic, foreign (and badly dubbed), older, newer, color, b&w, straight-to-video etc.  With Rifftrax, I know what's coming next: another cookie-cutter summer blockbuster from Hollywood.  Ultimately, Hollywood is to blame, but from a humor standpoint, I would like to see SOME variety. 

I realize that something like a Rifftrax for a 120 minute movie is not normally done in a week.   MST3K didn't even have that production turn-around due to the fixed running time of 87-90 minutes, and they were tied to the demands of network television.  None of that matters  when you are averaging a release per week (if we count shorts).  The production and lead-in times become irrelevant.  There is still too much product.  Like I said, Rifftrax is the new General Motors.  They are expending way too much energy competing with themselves. 

I am not a creative genius, but I know business.  The demand for Rifftrax is more or less fixed.  The only way to affect sales is by altering the supply side of the equation.  "Less accessible" movies would sell better if they weren't competing with another release every week or so.  It's really quite simple. 

[gammer]

Ultimately, Hollywood is to blame, but from a humor standpoint, I would like to see SOME variety. 

I agree with you. But the funny thing is that RiffTrax will tell you that they are giving you variety.

They'll say that the mainstream movies are not all the same. They'll say that they have shorts and RiffTrax Presents to add variety.

Its almost a political game...they know what we are saying, but they skirt around it by giving us 'an answer'. Albeit, its not the answer we want, but it does answer our question....which is: Why not more variety?

[Doc Steve]

The thing that's always baffled me about TPTB's stance on this situation is that they seem to flat-out refuse to riff any older movies anymore.  As if riffing one older movie now and then will run Rifftrax into the ground.  Yet, in previous years they riffed quite a few older movies and were still able to stay afloat. 

It's just bizarre that they won't throw a bone to the fans on this board.  You're telling me that after riffing movie after movie that supposedly sell extremely well that you guys can't afford to take a bit of a financial hit by riffing an older movie like R.e.d. D.a.w.n. once in awhile?  Really?  Not even for your hardcore fans?

That's how I feel about it, personally.  ^

I was trying to avoid making the following point so I didn't come across like a jackass, but here it is...  

None of the movies are particularly "accessible" to me, because almost everyone I know has what I consider "good taste."  That is, I know precisely as many people who own 300 as I do who own Glitter:  One.  That one person would be me, and I never would have touched either without the Rifftrax.  Apart from the Star Trek and Star Wars series and the occasional "flyer" (like Willy Wonka), I have had to expend equal effort to track down all of the movies.  (In other words: buy them, rent them, check them out from the library, or stick them in a stew.)  

I can't be the ONLY person in this position.  

[gammer]

I can't be the ONLY person in this position.  

I rent everything.

Out of all the RiffTrax released to date, I have maybe owned 3 of them.

[Doc Steve]

Ultimately, Hollywood is to blame, but from a humor standpoint, I would like to see SOME variety. 

I agree with you. But the funny thing is that RiffTrax will tell you that they are giving you variety.

They'll say that the mainstream movies are not all the same. They'll say that they have shorts and RiffTrax Presents to add variety.

Its almost a political game...they know what we are saying, but they skirt around it by giving us 'an answer'. Albeit, its not the answer we want, but it does answer our question....which is: Why not more variety?

I think you have hit the nail on the head. 

The really frustrating thing to me are the "political" explanations.  If you literally can't "afford" to do Dune or Red Dawn, then you have no idea as to how to run a business.  (That or you really need to hire someone else to do the corporate taxes.)  If you just don't want to do Dune or Red Dawn, for some reason, say so.  Don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining. 

I see no realistic difference between the recent Rifftrax and Rifftrax Presents releases.  The thematic distinction between them is no longer in evidence. 

[dalem]

Probably sticking my hand into a buzz saw here, but I think the "Presents" offerings are "different enough".  A few niche shots (splatter-gore, webshows), a few older ones (Alien, X Files), and a few more I can't remember right now.  So I think of it less as "movies I grew up with and would love to see done" as I do "un-mainstream Riff material, which can sometimes include the above".

And if they say it (whatever we may want - Red Dawn for some, Capricorn One for me, etc.) won't sell, then I think it takes some big brass ones to ask them to "just do it for us".  Or you.  Or me.  Or whatever.

Try buying their effort on commission, like kings and Popes and nobles used to do.  I bet they HAVE a price for "one-offs", but I also bet we can't get  there with smiles and faerie dust.

-dale

[Doc Steve]

Probably sticking my hand into a buzz saw here, but I think the "Presents" offerings are "different enough".  A few niche shots (splatter-gore, webshows), a few older ones (Alien, X Files), and a few more I can't remember right now.  So I think of it less as "movies I grew up with and would love to see done" as I do "un-mainstream Riff material, which can sometimes include the above".

You completely ignored my point.  Those are not "recent" Rifftrax Presents releases.  Other than Dirty Dancing, the last two were The Day After Tomorrow and Spider-Man 2. 

And if they say it (whatever we may want - That Movie for some, Capricorn One for me, etc.) won't sell, then I think it takes some big brass ones to ask them to "just do it for us".  Or you.  Or me.  Or whatever.

"Ask and ye shall receive."  If no one asks or speaks up, how is a business supposed to guage demand?  If you have to write macros to expunge all references to Dune and Red Dawn, then it's pretty clear to me the demand exists.  I have purchased over half of the Rifftrax now.  When am I allowed to make suggestions or complaints, in your opinion? 

Try buying their effort on commission, like kings and Popes and nobles used to do.  I bet they HAVE a price for "one-offs", but I also bet we can't get  there with smiles and faerie dust.

-dale

You are implicity comparing a Rifftrax to a Michaelangelo sculpture.  Are you really comfortable with that analogy? 


Look, I'm not trying to be a jackass.  I'm "voting" with my Mastercard.  When I finish collecting the older Rifftrax that actually seem interesting, I'm done until I see some change.   Period. 

[Conor]

"Ask and ye shall receive."  If no one asks or speaks up, how is a business supposed to guage demand?  If you have to write macros to expunge all references to Dune and Red Dawn, then it's pretty clear to me the demand exists.  I have purchased over half of the Rifftrax now.  When am I allowed to make suggestions or complaints, in your opinion? 

I think it is too easy to mistake "demand" for "repetition."  Which is what you have at least in the case of Dune.

I also think that complaints about us not doing older movies may just be like the complaint I addressed in the thread I linked to that we don't bake and sell delicious cookies.  While it might be nice (and tasty), it just isn't what we do.  (except the times in the past when we have and the times in the future that we will as well.) 

[dalem]

Probably sticking my hand into a buzz saw here, but I think the "Presents" offerings are "different enough".  A few niche shots (splatter-gore, webshows), a few older ones (Alien, X Files), and a few more I can't remember right now.  So I think of it less as "movies I grew up with and would love to see done" as I do "un-mainstream Riff material, which can sometimes include the above".

You completely ignored my point.  Those are not "recent" Rifftrax Presents releases.  Other than Dirty Dancing, the last two were The Day After Tomorrow and Spider-Man 2. 

Mmm, I didn't ignore it so much as massage it.  To be more specific, the next Presents might be Flash Gordon.  Or Frantic.  Or Star Trek III.  Or the first disk of Boston Legal. Or The Incredibles.  Or Dune.  Or Red Dawn. Or Superman, the Movie.  I don't know, you don't know.  You know?

And if they say it (whatever we may want - That Movie for some, Capricorn One for me, etc.) won't sell, then I think it takes some big brass ones to ask them to "just do it for us".  Or you.  Or me.  Or whatever.

"Ask and ye shall receive."  If no one asks or speaks up, how is a business supposed to guage demand?  If you have to write macros to expunge all references to Dune and Red Dawn, then it's pretty clear to me the demand exists.  I have purchased over half of the Rifftrax now.  When am I allowed to make suggestions or complaints, in your opinion? 

Oh, I had no intention of being a stifler.  I was just commenting on my particular interpretation of the Presents line and what it represents.  If my post came across as a "hush up now, the satisfied fans are talking", I apologize.

Try buying their effort on commission, like kings and Popes and nobles used to do.  I bet they HAVE a price for "one-offs", but I also bet we can't get  there with smiles and faerie dust.

-dale

You are implicity comparing a Rifftrax to a Michaelangelo sculpture.  Are you really comfortable with that analogy? 

Sure.  They are both products that the average person cannot produce but that someone(s) specific can.  For what I'm trying to get across, the comparison is apt.

Look, I'm not trying to be a jackass.  I'm "voting" with my Mastercard.  When I finish collecting the older Rifftrax that actually seem interesting, I'm done until I see some change.   Period. 

Sounds fair to me.

-dale

[Doc Steve]

"Ask and ye shall receive."  If no one asks or speaks up, how is a business supposed to guage demand?  If you have to write macros to expunge all references to Dune and Red Dawn, then it's pretty clear to me the demand exists.  I have purchased over half of the Rifftrax now.  When am I allowed to make suggestions or complaints, in your opinion? 

I think it is too easy to mistake "demand" for "repetition."  Which is what you have at least in the case of THAT MOVIE RVR KEEPS MENTIONING.

I also think that complaints about us not doing older movies may just be like the complaint I addressed in the thread I linked to that we don't bake and sell delicious cookies.  While it might be nice (and tasty), it just isn't what we do.  (except the times in the past when we have and the times in the future that we will as well.) 

I have not been around long enough to know the history of the macro.  I'll accept that explanation. 

Have you ever seen A Hard Day's Night?  There is a scene in which George stumbles into an advertising office pushing lines of clothing for teenagers.  George decalres the shirts to be "grotty" (grotesque) and claims that people only watch their spokesmodel in order to ridicule her.  The ad execs then spend a few moments arguing over whether or not George represents "the new trend," or whether he is just a "troublemaker."  (The joke is that they are so square that they don't even recognize a Beatle.) 

I realize that you're not branding me a "troublemaker," but here's another story...

Once upon a time, there was a company that baked delicious cookies (and specialty breads).  They were more or less successful for ten years, then the business closed, for whatever reason.  Several years later, half of the old staff go back into business making packaged crackers and occasionally, delicious cookies.   This second company decides to phase out the delicious cookies and concentrate on crackers.  Right about this time, the remainder of the staff from the first company form a third company.  What are they selling?  You guessed it, delicious cookies.  Assuming that the former customers of the initial company are not made of money, what will happen?


P.S.  I will refrain from further comment until I finish reading the thread to which you refer.  (It's only fair, I suppose.) 

[Conor]

I'm not  too worried about the scenario you describe.  But it all boils down to not being able to make everyone happy.  There are plenty of people out there who enjoy what we've been doing, and hopefully we'll be able to do some stuff to entice other peoples taste in the future.

It all comes back to Bill's original post.  Just think about what he said, that maybe 80% less people are interested in a Glitter than a Transformers.  Is that a fact that should be ignored?  Or should we routinely produce something that 4/5ths of our fans have no interest in?

I appreciate your level headedness in your above post.  I'm not trying to willfully ignore anyones question, and I don't want to come off as aloof.  But it can be hard for me to get things across in an appropriate way in this type of setting.

[dangfish]

  Now that the catalog is large enough, I doubt you will ever see anyone seriously recommend The Bourne Identity Rifftrax. 


   



 

Says you.     I loved the Bourne Identity trax and highly recommend it with no hesitation.

[OmegaR!]

I also think that complaints about us not doing older movies may just be like the complaint I addressed in the thread I linked to that we don't bake and sell delicious cookies.  While it might be nice (and tasty), it just isn't what we do.  (except the times in the past when we have and the times in the future that we will as well.) 

Until they are pressured in manufacturing delicious cookies, you'll just have to nibble on DisembAudio's Ballz