OK! As a Pagan, I MUST respond to this movie......!!!!

[Reductio_ad_absurdum]

Except that the victims of the purgings were all chosen on their political and religious background, not their physical or mental fitness.

Though people do skew that line of thought, I've seen examples where they did think like that.  Again, I'm not arguing that he really would, but criticising Goshzilla for his derogatory remarks by using an equivalent arguement.

[ScottotD]

maybe he got it from the 'anti-christian handbook'

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

so paganism huh,  anyone want to talk about IT?  especially how it relates to the movie wickerman? Randy does this movie even come close to portraying ANYTHING about your religion right?

[Goshzilla]

Except that the victims of the purgings were all chosen on their political and religious background, not their physical or mental fitness.

Though people do skew that line of thought, I've seen examples where they did think like that.  Again, I'm not arguing that he really would, but criticising Goshzilla for his derogatory remarks by using an equivalent arguement.

Yes and I see you take irrelevant quotes to their extreme. Much like I can quote to you from the bible and "behold I shall corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces." Malachai 2:3 see the bible said it, therefore I have the right to do it. Regardless with what the bible says, its a hodgepodge of contradictions. Nothing in it should be used for a source of morality. There are God approved genocides, human sacrifices, rapes and abortions.

I have every right to my opinoins. Even when it comes to religion. You call them derogatory because you conviently set yourself in the bubble where your religion is supposedly beyond criticism. It's not. In fact I can go ahead and give you another one of my opinoins. You know that passage in the bible where Jesus cursed a fig tree because it had no fruit. Well in my opinoin this shows Jesus as an immature brat who has no clue about plant biology. How could he claim to have been there from the beginning of the universe and not know about plants? The short answer would be he is a liar.

[RandyMistie]

so paganism huh,  anyone want to talk about IT?  especially how it relates to the movie wickerman? Randy does this movie even come close to portraying ANYTHING about your religion right?

That's a very considerate post, Sarcasm, thank you!  But, I really don't wanna talk about this anymore, it was a stupid mistake for me to even bring it up.

I will just say this, a quote from Ghandi, "...there are many paths to God..."  I believe in science first, and then that any faith or religion can bring you to Enlightenment.  I would say that ALL paths can lead to God.

[AmandaGal]

Come on Randy.  I hope I didn't offend you or your religion and I seriously hope you're not as pissed off about this as you come across.  You'd think as a pagan you'd have thicker skin.  It's a silly thread on an even sillier message board.  It was not a stupid mistake and just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean their opinion is "degenerating into stupidity."  Have you read any of the other religion threads on the board? 

You shared your view and your religion and there's nothing wrong with that.  Threads here always go off on tangents.  It's Rifftrax.  We don't make threads, we make fun of them and run them into the ground.

[RandyMistie]

No I'm not offended I am kind of ashamed of myself for even bringing it up.  It was dumb and I apologize to everybody....

[AmandaGal]

Ok.  But I don't think it was dumb.  Actually, the Christian world, as a whole, doesn't really understand paganism and I think taking the opportunity to say that we're not really the folks who drink goats blood and dance around naked before mass orgies is always a good idea.  Rifftrax folks are generally more educated than the people who think that though.

I don't think people should kiss my ass but when people back away and assume I'm going to sacrifice their cat to Satan, it's always a real downer.  Much the same as if someone said they were of a religion I didn't know much about, I would hope they would tell me of my faulty beliefs (so, if Tom Cruise ever comes up to me and I make a joke about aliens and such, I hope he corrects me because I admit, I don't know much about his religion but what I do know I think is stupid so that makes me kind of a hypocrite I guess).

I see where you were coming from.  I hope I didn't contribute to making you feel dumb. My first post came off stronger than I meant it to be.  I guess I get upset when my religion is misclassified as Wiccan, not that there is anything wrong with Wiccan religions.  I probably should have been nicer though

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

i think there is enough assholism to spread around on this particular thread.  although randy imrahil and amanda arent the ones id point fingers at. 

Actually, the Christian world, as a whole, doesn't really understand paganism and I think taking the opportunity to say that we're not really the folks who drink goats blood and dance around naked before mass orgies is always a good idea.  Rifftrax folks are generally more educated than the people who think that though.

for what its worth, im a christian and i dont feel this way,  i do disagree with you guys but i dont think there is anything anymore inheritantly (spelling?) evil in that than anything ive ever done. 

[Reductio_ad_absurdum]

Except that the victims of the purgings were all chosen on their political and religious background, not their physical or mental fitness.

Though people do skew that line of thought, I've seen examples where they did think like that.  Again, I'm not arguing that he really would, but criticising Goshzilla for his derogatory remarks by using an equivalent arguement.

Yes and I see you take irrelevant quotes to their extreme. Much like I can quote to you from the bible and "behold I shall corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces." Malachai 2:3 see the bible said it, therefore I have the right to do it. Regardless with what the bible says, its a hodgepodge of contradictions. Nothing in it should be used for a source of morality. There are God approved genocides, human sacrifices, rapes and abortions.

I have every right to my opinoins. Even when it comes to religion. You call them derogatory because you conviently set yourself in the bubble where your religion is supposedly beyond criticism. It's not. In fact I can go ahead and give you another one of my opinoins. You know that passage in the bible where Jesus cursed a fig tree because it had no fruit. Well in my opinoin this shows Jesus as an immature brat who has no clue about plant biology. How could he claim to have been there from the beginning of the universe and not know about plants? The short answer would be he is a liar.

Malachai 2:1-2 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you.  If you will not hear, and if you will not take it to heart, to give glory to My name," Says the Lord of hosts, I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings, Yes I have cursed them already, Because you do not take it to heart."  This is a warning and declaration of their blasphemy as Levite priests.  Oh and do finish quotes, [end of Malachai 2:3] "...The refuse of your solemn feasts; And one will take you away with it."  They are desecrating the holy feasts, and God is telling them the consequence of it.  They knew what they were doing and what would become of it.

That the Disciples saw it states that he did it for a reason.  It was to allude to the Pharisees and Sadducees.  He was also human, and he had the same potential for impulsiveness as we do.  The moneylenders in the temple upset him greatly, as much as seeing someone defile our houses would make us.  Being hungry didn't help his temper any.  That is not a sign of an immature brat.

On the Bible not being a proper source of a moral code, atheism isn't a proper one neither.  A person doesn't think "morally" by accident, but must have a higher reasoning for it.  Most times it forms from responsibilities that come from the immediate family and tribe.  Going beyond self-sacrificing for loved ones and to complete strangers is something that only religion (and particularly Christianity) has acheived.  You cannot get such mercy and charity out of atheism because it is neutral to such thought.  Does it mean that Atheists don't act like this?  That they don't sacrifice time, money, and such.  No, but that is a conscious and personal matter.  Christianity makes it very important to teach that and the 2,000 years have shown that for all the problems that have been caused by those that twist the message for their own agenda.  I find it doubtful that atheism can teach it without seeming tacked on.  That is me of course.  I would greatly enjoy seeing it taught no matter the reasoning.

I do apologize again for condescending remarks.  It is wholly unworthy to God for me to act in such a matter.  To ScottH, my handbook comment seems to have offended you greatly.  It was my mistake.

On Paganism, I know very little unfortunately as it has been referenced, but I try not to look down upon others.  As some of my responses on here have shown, I'm not successful many times.  It is a failure of mine.

[RandyMistie]

Before I let this sad thread die, I do want to clarify one thing.  RobtheBarbarian and Qbeenie both pulled out the old hat, "you know Wicca is a new religion invented in the 60's..." Beenie even said that it has little to do with pre-christian paganism.

Well, I do (kindly!) take exception to that argument.  Yes, the word "Wicca" was made up by some crazy nudist named Gerald Gardener in the '40's, a student of Alestair Crowley's, (his chubby ass shows up in almost all 19th/20th century occultism, unfortunately...), but that's just a label.  The religion is about Isis.  How old is Isis worship?

What if I just called it "Isis Worship" would you say that it was made up in the 60's then?  One of our most sacred chants that we use on full moon rituals is... "Isis, Ishtarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Innanna... (then it gets really fruity, so... I won't go farther into it...)"  How old are those Goddesses?  A couple of years?  I mean, what do you have to do to try and associate yourself with these archetypes that trandsend all human history?  I'll call it whatever you want, but we ARE in fact trying to re-connect to an ancient belief system.

How old is the Baptist Church?  Would you say that Christianity started with the formation of the Baptist Chruch?  Or the Mormon?  The Nazarene Church was founded in 1932, is that when Christ was born or when He was crucified... or what?  No.  These are just re-inventions of an already old and formidable Christian tradition.  That's all Wicca is.  A new label for a very, very old tradtion.

Not offended or being snarky or anything, just an important point that I wanted to clarify.  Nothin' but love coming from this man, you all rock!!!  ...and stuff...

[Goshzilla]

On the Bible not being a proper source of a moral code, atheism isn't a proper one neither.  A person doesn't think "morally" by accident, but must have a higher reasoning for it.

If the standard defense is, "yours doesn't answer the question either." then you have entered a rhetorical device, not worthy of anything but ridicule.  The difference between atheism and christianity is that Christians are driven by their text. There is no text, no dominate figure head for an atheist to follow. A moral atheist finds their morals from what works in society. It's a simple analogy to behavorialism. We are rewarded for good deeds, and unlike classical conditioning, we willfully take actions that will please us the most with respect to recieving from other people.

Most times it forms from responsibilities that come from the immediate family and tribe.  Going beyond self-sacrificing for loved ones and to complete strangers is something that only religion (and particularly Christianity) has acheived.

Again you would be wrong. There are many people, who are religious, who are not Christian, who fit this self-sacrificing description. Ghandi, Bertrand Russel, and Einstein. What exactly qualifies as self scarificing?

Morality comes from individual interaction. Morality existed long before the Bible did,  Atheism never claims an ultimate morality. Religion like the Bible, does make such claims.  The bible itself claims a god flooded the world because of a lack of morality. However morality, moral codes and principles existed in writing well before the actual old testament was written, and it had existed before the supposed origins of the world.

Scripture is not such an area where morality comes from. Every Christian, Muslim, and Jew picks and chooses what they see in their holy text as an example of morality. One passage condemns abortion, while another one condones killing children "happy is he who dashth thy children on stones." Spreading poop on someone's face, or tainting semen with hiv is something that is morally reprehensible no matter who is doing the action. Just as in the new testament where Jesus cursed a fig tree in a childish act of nonsense is explained away as a parable not to be taken literally. Similarily when he cursed God's name on the cross. Christians choose not to see this. Or if they do, they explain that its right and just for God to do so.

God is not above his own laws, for if he was, he could make a rock he couldn't lift. Its your predicament of faith that has such contradictions.  I was baptized, and confirmed, but I saw that nothing could overcome the glaring logical problems in the simple concepts of god's existence. The only real answer, is that the concept of a god is made up by man at a time when rational thought was not around. It's funny how I hear people discover god. Where were they when they discovered him? Were they walking on the Great Wall of China? or in India at the time of discovery? Were they spending time with an indiginous tribe of people in Kenya? Most likely it has more to do with they knew of the concept of god before hand from a souce located in their place of origin. Discovery of god is nothing like science or mathematics. For if it were, independent results could be made with no influence on the other. But every religion that places a belief in a god or gods is different, it shows that religion in a god is never consistent for the simple fact that no one can ever discover the right religion. Therefore no one can discover god or gods, ever. This means that god never reveals himself to anyone. You should see where this is going I shouldn't have to explain any further.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

There is no text, no dominate figure head for an atheist to follow. A moral atheist finds their morals from what works in society. It's a simple analogy to behavorialism. We are rewarded for good deeds, and unlike classical conditioning, we willfully take actions that will please us the most with respect to recieving from other people.

like joining the luftwaffe in 1940s germany.

he could make a rock he couldn't lift

ah how silly.  a discussion about morality lets bring up a different discussion about logical and semantic paradoxes as proof that one example of morality must be false. 

omnipotent doesnt mean being capable of doing totally impossible things, such as two mutally exclusive acts simultaneously.  why would you assume it does?

[RobtheBarbarian]

omnipotent doesnt mean being capable of doing totally impossible things, such as two mutally exclusive acts simultaneously.  why would you assume it does?

"Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power." -Wikipedia

"adj.   Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful." -American Heritage Dictionary

I'd say omnipotence implies the ability to do everything, what with the emphasis on limitless power.

And we're grown ups here.. we don't need to make Nazi references. 

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

And we're grown ups here.. we don't need to make Nazi references. 

we do if they are relevant.  would prefer stalinism or female genital mutilation preformed by the taliban?  its the simple and classical counter to moral relativism. 

The thing about all power is that it still doesnt mean things that are logically impossible.  not hypothetically impossible, but literally logically impossble.  Having all power would mean being able to do everything that can be done.