Thoughts??

[SmilinJackRoss]

There just seems to be an air of misplaced self-righteous indignation to a lot of these rifftrax which just isn't funny to me.

Yeah, the direct jabs at the incompetency of the filmmakers and actors do seem a bit...mean at times.  Movies like Troll 2 deserve those types of comments, but I think stuff like The Matrix and Star Trek VI don't deserve those types of comments.  But, I usually give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's just good natured ribbing.  The Rifftrax are definitely funnier when they're cracking "jokes", and not simply "bashing" the film itself.

I truly think these guys hate just about every movie they rifftrack.

Except for LotR, there wasn't much film-bashing in that one.  Mike actually said something positive when the Balrog and Gandalf face each other, about it being a really cool shot...I don't remember his exact words though.

[PlayMSTie]

My goodness. You guys do remember the point of RiffTrax, don't you? Like, for instance, making fun of movies??

I guess it's better just to go in without being a "Star Trek" fan, as I do, because the movies all look lousy to me and I don't particularly care which one is lousier than the other. I think they all deserve everything the guys throw at them and more.

[Pak-Man]

Except for LotR, there wasn't much film-bashing in that one.  Mike actually said something positive when the Balrog and Gandalf face each other, about it being a really cool shot...I don't remember his exact words though.

Something like, "Turn up your volumes at home. This scene is this movie's guitar solo!"

[macleod]

I guess it's better just to go in without being a "Star Trek" fan, as I do, because the movies all look lousy to me and I don't particularly care which one is lousier than the other. I think they all deserve everything the guys throw at them and more.

Haha, welcome to the discussion; I couldn't agree more. I just get a kick out of how everyone defends these as great works of art...

[SmilinJackRoss]

I guess it's better just to go in without being a "Star Trek" fan, as I do, because the movies all look lousy to me and I don't particularly care which one is lousier than the other. I think they all deserve everything the guys throw at them and more.

Haha, welcome to the discussion; I couldn't agree more. I just get a kick out of how everyone defends these as great works of art...

I don't think anyone has said these were anything like great works of art.  But you're missing my point.  The discussion is about the difference between making a particularily funny joke, observation, or impression....as opposed to just saying "wow, this movie sucks!"  Anyone can say something like that, so I expect the wit that comes with Rifftrax to be a bit more sharp.  And it is, for the most part.  I just don't like it when they use that particular crutch.

I think this was discussed to death when the Phantom Menace trax came out, so I'll shut up about it now.

[SmilinJackRoss]

Something like, "Turn up your volumes at home. This scene is this movie's guitar solo!"

No, I just checked to make sure.  I'm referring to when the Balrog first appears, and Mike says "Ah, There he is, coolest scene in the whole movie right there."  I thought that was very gracious (and unexpected) of him.

[Nunyerbiz]

I guess it's better just to go in without being a "Star Trek" fan, as I do, because the movies all look lousy to me and I don't particularly care which one is lousier than the other. I think they all deserve everything the guys throw at them and more.

Haha, welcome to the discussion; I couldn't agree more. I just get a kick out of how everyone defends these as great works of art...

I will agree with Mr. Smilin' Jack, you missed the point. I am not defending Star Trek VI as a work of art, in fact in one of my original replies to this thread I said as much. "I don't think any Trek movies are cinematic masterpieces" was my exact quote. My issue is quite the opposite. Mike and crew are the ones treating these movies as if they EXPECT them to be works of art. I don't find it particularly amusing when they go "elistist", if you will, and make jabs based on some bizarre quality standard that they themselves artificially inflated.

With something like Phantom Menace, I gave them MUCH more slack as it was a super-hyped movie that completely failed to meet every concievable expectation short of box office. While I think they went a little overboard at times in that one, it deserved something that slanted more towards mean-spirited. Star Trek VI was a freakin fluff piece... the only way it could have been more fluff is if they introduced the Care Bears as an evil alien race. The filmmakers weren't trying to sweep at Oscar or shift the paradigm of filmmaking as we know it. Many of the "meaner" rifftrax comments this time around seemed incongruous for such a lightweight movie. They were being petty.

I guess they aren't going to change. I've never understood the general animosity towards movies around here and I guess I never will. Apparently the riffers share this animosity and sometimes go overboard to revel in it. I don't watch movies because I hate them and I can have a good enough time with most movies I watch. Of course there are exceptions. I think Dr. Moreau, xXx, Battlefield Earth and a few others wholeheartedly deserve to be loathed. Even in jest, if you start throwing suicide references around in regards to something as innocuous as Trek VI... the joke is lost on me. You're just being a self-absorbed ninny.

[PlayMSTie]

Of course we all have our own particular types of riffs that we prefer, and we all like certain RiffTraxes better than others. But I don't think the guys are being particularly snobbish or self-righteous or elitist or mean with any of them. (If I thought they were, believe me, I'd join you guys in calling them on it. I LOATHE snobbery.) They just bash movies because it's what they do and it's what they've always done, starting with the MST3K era. I really don't think they're saying, "This movie is not 'Gone with the Wind,' and it should have been 'Gone with the Wind,' so I will now proceed to tear it to shreds!" That's never been the way they operate, as far as I can tell. They're just taking things they think are silly or bad and making fun of them.

The guys hate, or just make fun of, lots of things I like (Rachael Ray, "Patch Adams," and Shania Twain come to mind -- yes, I know she can be weird, I just like her, okay?  ) but I don't think they're being mean or snobbish about it. I think they just don't like those things. That's fine by me.

[Nunyerbiz]

Well, I'm not trying to blow this out of porportion or anything. I just think the discussion board is the place to talk about the things you and like and the things you don't like about the product. With this particular rifftrack, I do think they went 'snobby' on a number of occasions but it's a tiny fraction of the overall piece of work. I'm not denying that. I laughed ALOT more with Trek VI than I was annoyed with it. I have no issue making fun of things they thought were silly or bad. I do have an issue when they go out of their way to be mean-spirited against a completely harmless movie.

However, I do think they fell into your "Gone With The Wind" analogy with this one. Just because the movie had a character who quoted Shakespear didn't automatically remind me how a silly Sci-Fi franchise movie isn't as good as Shakespear... Apparently it did for Mike and that exchange definitely struck me a snobby. It's a pretty good stretch to suggest that the people responsible for Trek VI were trying to put themselves into the league of one of the greatest literary figures of the English language or that they ever imagined that anybody would suggest they were making such a comparison. Of course, Bill saved the day for me by diffusing such an inane comparison with his "tattoo magazine vs nachos" addition. Mentioning Shakespear and Trek VI in any head-to-head discussion is as crazy as tatoo mags and nachos battling it out for supremecy.

[PlayMSTie]

I see what you're saying, but then they've always had that policy of "Never show a good movie in the middle of your crappy movie" (as stated when what's-his-name started watching "Casablanca" in "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank"), which I think is pretty sensible. Of course they weren't SHOWING Shakespeare here, but the principle still applies. When you're showing people silly things, it's kind of shooting yourself in the foot to keep reminding them of great art.  At least, that's how I see it.

[Nunyerbiz]

I will respectfully disagree in that the Overdrawn at the Memory Bank comparison is a pretty big stretch. In that movie they were completely aping Casablanca. A full half of the movie took place in some bizarre virtual reality version of Casablanca. They were forcing the comparison at every turn. In Trek VI, a character was using Shakespear quotes that were relevant to the goings on of the plot. They weren't jumping into the holodeck and reimaging "King Lear" or something.

[macleod]

Wow, step away from the boards for a sec and miss a heated debate...

I for one LIKE bad movies on occasion; I own my share of crappy action and sci-fi flicks out there, and often I think they're just fun to watch. Don't get me wrong, I still think that as far as meaningful entertainment goes, they're pretty bad. You could call that snobby if you wanted to, but I think we all recognize that just because a movie is entertaining doesn't make it a great film per se.

Star Trek is fun to riff because it does take itself so seriously, as do the fans, let the board show...

[Nunyerbiz]

From the time they saved the whales, the original cast were pretty much lightweights that played up about as much lame comic relief as they did dramatic posturing. I'll give you the "so serious" tag for The Motion Pciture, Khan and Search for Spock... but if you thought The Undiscovered Country took itself too seriously, with a freaking Shatner vs Shatner fist fight being played for laughs.... I would wonder if you actually watched the movie to begin with.

Again, it's not about bad movie or good movie... making fun or not making fun. The issue that I have is when they aren't even attempting to make fun, they are simply being mean-spirited. There are movies that deserve such treatment and there are ones where such treatment just comes across as petty.

[Pak-Man]

I agree the riff shouldn't be mean-spirited (see: SW Ep 1) but I haven't picked up any meanness in this one, or the previous Trek. It's treated as silly, and maybe that seems mean to the trekkies, but that's the point of Rifftrax. To make a movie look silly, right?

[macleod]

I agree the riff shouldn't be mean-spirited (see: SW Ep 1) but I haven't picked up any meanness in this one, or the previous Trek. It's treated as silly, and maybe that seems mean to the trekkies, but that's the point of Rifftrax. To make a movie look silly, right?

I'm with you Pak-Man, they of course fun of the Trek Franchise characters, but I don't see any real loathing in either of those riffs. But some Trek fans seem to take any slight to the franchise as a personal attack...