The Obligatory Special Edition Hate Thread

[RoninFox]

One thing I think of when I see ESB is that originally I always got the impression that Cloud City was a cold and oppressive environment.  It was a mining facility, it was isolated, it was kind of plain inside the hallways with some very dark and frightening places underneath, and I thought that worked very well.  Even early on in the Cloud City scenes you felt that there was something wrong going on even before C3PO gets blown up and Vader is revealed.

Then in the SE version there's all the extra CG around the actors making these bright more colorfull environments with huge windows everywhere and bustlingt friendly looking people, and for me the tension of the scenes were lost.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

One thing I think of when I see ESB is that originally I always got the impression that Cloud City was a cold and oppressive environment.  It was a mining facility, it was isolated, it was kind of plain inside the hallways with some very dark and frightening places underneath, and I thought that worked very well.  Even early on in the Cloud City scenes you felt that there was something wrong going on even before C3PO gets blown up and Vader is revealed.

Then in the SE version there's all the extra CG around the actors making these bright more colorfull environments with huge windows everywhere and bustlingt friendly looking people, and for me the tension of the scenes were lost.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way, I always thought of it as being more of a mystery as to what exactly was going on, not really all that much tension. 

Guess that's why the extra CG stuff on the cloud city never bothered me.

One could say the new way is more of a shock when Vader is revealed, if seeing it for the first time you get the initial tension between Han and Landow, then things lighten up, then mystery when C3PO get blown up, then surprise when Vader is revealed.

How you react to these changes really depends on how you interpreted and felt about the scenes the first time you viewed them.

[dalem]

How do you guys remember such insignificant things from 17 years previous? If you hadn't told me, I wouldn't have known the Vader ship scene was new. It affects nothing.

Because I've seen the movies dozens of times and have most of them memorized.

Like, duh.

-dale

[Doctor Who?]

My brother and I watched the movies so many times on VHS that not only did we ruin the tapes but when we went to a sitter's house and the sound went out on their tv while we were watching Return of the Jedi we were able to say the dialog along with the movie.

Also how can someone be on the rifftrax board and not know about little thing called home video?

[ScottotD]

Then in the SE version there's all the extra CG around the actors making these bright more colorfull environments with huge windows everywhere and bustlingt friendly looking people, and for me the tension of the scenes were lost.

I got the exact opposite feel from that scene, it's because I found Cloud City (except for the C3PO bit) so bright and happy that Vader showing up was so scary.

[dalem]

I guess the obvious thing that points out is that Lucas is not a writer, all the books for Star Wars were written by other people, even the first one that only had Lucas listed as the author was ghost written by Alan Dean Foster.   Lucas should have hired a real scifi writer to help with the scripts, imagine how much better the movies would have been...  All of the the really good stuff by Lucas was either in collaboration or working under time/budget constraints.

Empire's basic story was indeed written by real scifi writers, Leigh Brackett among them.  Probably the other big reason (a real director, Kirshner being of course the other) why it's such a good movie.

-dale

[dalem]

One thing I think of when I see ESB is that originally I always got the impression that Cloud City was a cold and oppressive environment.  It was a mining facility, it was isolated, it was kind of plain inside the hallways with some very dark and frightening places underneath, and I thought that worked very well.  Even early on in the Cloud City scenes you felt that there was something wrong going on even before C3PO gets blown up and Vader is revealed.

Then in the SE version there's all the extra CG around the actors making these bright more colorfull environments with huge windows everywhere and bustlingt friendly looking people, and for me the tension of the scenes were lost.

Interesting!  I had the exact opposite reaction to those changes.  The music for Cloud City is so breezy for the interiors and majestic for the exteriors I never got a sense of oppression.  Maybe I am too polluted by the production paintings but I think the CGI "windows" really work with the sets.  I don't think it fails without them, but they fit well for me.

Interesting...

-dale

[Doctor Who?]

I have always found it funny that even as a kid my favorite Star Wars movie was the one Lucass had next to nothing to do with.

Lucass' movies get better the farther away from them he stays.

[dalem]

My brother and I watched the movies so many times on VHS that not only did we ruin the tapes but when we went to a sitter's house and the sound went out on their tv while we were watching Return of the Jedi we were able to say the dialog along with the movie.

Also how cane someone be on the rifftrax board and not know about little thing called home video?

I think the bratpop enjoys, more than a little bit, the pulling of folks' chains.

-dale

[Doctor Who?]

One thing I think of when I see ESB is that originally I always got the impression that Cloud City was a cold and oppressive environment.  It was a mining facility, it was isolated, it was kind of plain inside the hallways with some very dark and frightening places underneath, and I thought that worked very well.  Even early on in the Cloud City scenes you felt that there was something wrong going on even before C3PO gets blown up and Vader is revealed.

Then in the SE version there's all the extra CG around the actors making these bright more colorfull environments with huge windows everywhere and bustlingt friendly looking people, and for me the tension of the scenes were lost.

Interesting!  I had the exact opposite reaction to those changes.  The music for Cloud City is so breezy for the interiors and majestic for the exteriors I never got a sense of oppression.  Maybe I am too polluted by the production paintings but I think the CGI "windows" really work with the sets.  I don't think it fails without them, but they fit well for me.

Interesting...

-dale

The windows were pretty much the only change I didn't hate.

[bratpop]

Well, you don't really spend time saying how much you like the original versions. You spend time saying how much you hate the special editions. It's a special edition hate thread, not an original version love thread. So no, I don't think it is ever okay to enjoy or like anything.

My problem is what Thrify was saying. I don't mind people liking the originals. Obviously, we all liked the originals for years. It's hating the special editions like Satan that I find extremely unnecessary. Isn't it okay to like 95% of the movie more than you hate 5% of it?

I don't see how it's like changing Shakespeare! If anything, it's like Shakespeare hiring somebody to do his play and then Shakespeare altering the play. Much as you might want to deify the guy who just happened to direct Empire, he was hired by Lucas to make Lucas' movie, so if Lucas wants to change it, he can because he's the boss.

What it's really like is an artist changing his painting and then all the snobs who thought it represented man's struggle with jealousy find out it was supposed to be a horse eating an apple and they're pissed off because they were wrong.

You were wrong. Star Wars was meant to suck. Lucas did his job right. He finally made people hate Star Wars. Now where's his Oscar?

[Piobman]

The best way I could describe what lucas has done is this.

Take the Mona Lisa. Put a moustache on her. 95% of the painting is still the same... but you pretty much ruined it because of this minor change.  I guess if you're open minded enough you could overlook it and see the beauty of everything else. But lets face it.... we'll just keep looking at that damn mustache!

[MartyS (Gromit)]

You were wrong. Star Wars was meant to suck. Lucas did his job right. He finally made people hate Star Wars. Now where's his Oscar?

Now THAT was funny...

[Doctor Who?]

The best way I could describe what lucas has done is this.

Take the Mona Lisa. Put a moustache on her. 95% of the painting is still the same... but you pretty much ruined it because of this minor change.  I guess if you're open minded enough you could overlook it and see the beauty of everything else. But lets face it.... we'll just keep looking at that damn mustache!

Also I would point out that all directors are hired by the studio so and the studios are the ones who pay for the movie so should studios be able to make changes to old movies and destroy the early prints.

I for one wouldn't care what Lucass did with star wars if he would just release the good cuts in a form that didn't leave 3/4 of  as modern tv screen as a black bar.

My issue is so much with the changes as it is with the fact that he seems to only be making them now to spite his fans,fans that made him rich,and loved his work so much that we lined up three times to see his stupid prequels because we believed in him.

The saddest part is that he seems like a nice guy other wise if he could just get over this "i am the greatest story teller who ever lived and if someone doesn't like what I do they are just idiots" thing he seems to have been going through the past 2 decades or so he could be a great film makers again.

[bratpop]

Funny, but... you don't have to be a GIGANTIC NERD to appreciate the original Mona Lisa, and the moustache would be clearly bizarre. I'd special edition-ize your metaphor by saying it's like adding a clearly digital background to the Mona Lisa. Doesn't really affect the subject of the painting, but it might be distracting and a bit odd.

Of course, most people wouldn't want the Mona Lisa hanging in their drawing room or foyer no matter how famous it is. It is a strange little painting. Kind of resembles George Washington in drag.

Comparing Star Wars to the Mona Lisa is going a bit far. It's closer to Warhol's Campbell's Soup can, but with a Magic Eye or random fractal background. You'd probably still buy it as a poster if it only came in that version, even though you'd be annoyed by the change. But you would bitch about it on forums.

So there.