I'm getting a little tired of all these recent movies.

[Doc Steve]

Do you honestly think they aren't?

Bill himself has participated in these threads.

This thread proves to me that reading and reading comprehension are two totally different things.

My entire point has been: MOST OF THE RIFFTRAX RELEASED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS ARE NOT FUNNY.  I thought I had made that abundantly clear. 


Apparently not.

In all honesty, my advice would be that if our comedy is working you up this much, you should probably take a break.  We'll still be here when you get back, and hopefully by then we'll have done something you're more interested in.  It's just an idea.  Perhaps putting too much thought into why we've picked the movies we choose and how we're running things here is making the whole experience less fun for you.
AGAIN:  not trying to be a dick.  I appreciate your dedication and concern.  But a break is probably in order when parallels to in-a-gadda-da-vida spring readily to your mind.

I'd hate to run into him when he was trying to be a dick. 

Apparently, I spent so much time worrying about Rifftrax that I lost my sense of humor.

Here's the actual sequence of events.

1.  Doc Steve thinks a lot of recent Rifftrax suck.  He doesn't laugh once at Ocean's 11, The Bourne Identity, Cloverfield, or Daredevil.

2.  Doc Steve notcies what those movies have in common.

3.  Since Doc Steve can't get his money back for a defective product in this case (to my mind they were defective), he foolishly thinks that posting here might accomplish something. 

4.  Other than responses from a few fans who are already frustrated, people proceed to pee in my ear and tell me it's raining.  Or worse, tell me to take a time out until I will buy again.  WTF ?!?!?!

5.  THEN, Doc Steve gets frustrated.

Are we all on the same page yet?

James of LinHood was right.  It's like beating your head against a wall. 

[Edward J Grug III]

Do you honestly think they aren't?

Bill himself has participated in these threads.

This thread proves to me that reading and reading comprehension are two totally different things.

My entire point has been: MOST OF THE RIFFTRAX RELEASED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS ARE NOT FUNNY.  I thought I had made that abundantly clear. 


Apparently not.

ACCORDING TO YOU!

But then, if yoy look at the ranking threads, THEY ARE GETTING HIGH SCORES.

They are obviously STILL SELLING WELL as they HAVEN'T CHANGED ANYTHING as they normally DO WHEN SOMETHING'S NOT WORKING.

I'm not sure why we're using caps, but you seem to think it gives your argument more strength.

[Doc Steve]

Do you honestly think they aren't?

Bill himself has participated in these threads.

This thread proves to me that reading and reading comprehension are two totally different things.

My entire point has been: MOST OF THE RIFFTRAX RELEASED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS ARE NOT FUNNY.  I thought I had made that abundantly clear. 


Apparently not.

ACCORDING TO YOU!

But then, if yoy look at the ranking threads, THEY ARE GETTING HIGH SCORES.

They are obviously STILL SELLING WELL as they HAVEN'T CHANGED ANYTHING as they normally DO WHEN SOMETHING'S NOT WORKING.

I'm not sure why we're using caps, but you seem to think it gives your argument more strength.

Correct.  According to me. 

It has been made abundantly clear to me that my opinion must not count.  I guess I'll have to wait in time-out until more people agree with me. 

Thanks, you have been very helpful.

[James of LinHood]

If it isn't working for you, you might have to start looking elsewhere.

Ah.  Gotta love the "If you're not a rabid Rifftrax fanboy get the hell out" attitude.

[torgosPizza]

We understand that opinions will differ... and the creative people are aware of this. However it seems that even when someone who is involved in the creative process, such as Bill Corbett, posts here to tell you their reasoning for doing the newer movies, that is never good enough.

I think it's frustrating to some of us who are on the business end of things, having people tell us how to run the business based on their own presumptions of how the business should be run. I think part of the frustration is that we've been over this argument many times already, and the answer from us has been fairly consistent, I think. I don't agree with all of the choices either, sometimes - and I work here! - but I'm also privy to the numbers, and when Bill says that it's a negative 80% difference in profit, he's not just blowing smoke up your ass. We're trying to do more varied things (look for something special later this year) but we have to make sure the product isn't so varied that it drives us out of business.

Different people find different things funny.. that's just how it is. I personally thought the Transformers track was hilarious, other people have found it mediocre or worse. Who is correct in this instance? I'm going to go on a limb and suggest that both sides are correct. "What is funny to someone" is subjective.

To sum up, your opinions are being heard, as they always are. We can only explain in so many ways why the choices are made the way they are. I am sorry if some tracks are so bad that you want your money back - but I can understand your plight. All I can suggest is reading up on others' opinions of a track for an idea if something's funny, but again, since opinions may differ, just because the forum thought Daredevil was funny doesn't mean you will, too.

If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.  

[Doc Steve]

If it isn't working for you, you might have to start looking elsewhere.

Ah.  Gotta love the "If you're not a rabid Rifftrax fanboy get the hell out" attitude.

If people want to debate me, I can't stop them.  I came to make my point and get some sense of how many people agreed.  People then began trying to tell me that my opinion was "wrong."  The basic message I got was: take it or leave it.   You can spin it any way you want, but that's the bottom line.  How in God's name someone would possibly think that wouldn't aggravate the @#$% out of me is just beyond me.  

It amazes me that anyone takes any stock in the forum polls at all.  If the majority of the responses are in the 9-10 range, any competent statistician would tell you that the polls are worthless.  A lack of distribution of the scores is a priori evidence of a false correlation between the sample and the actual data set (everyone who heard the Rifftrax).  As James of LinHood would more eloquently put it, only fan boys are voting.  

[Doc Steve]

We understand that opinions will differ... and the creative people are aware of this. However it seems that even when someone who is involved in the creative process, such as Bill Corbett, posts here to tell you their reasoning for doing the newer movies, that is never good enough.

I think it's frustrating to some of us who are on the business end of things, having people tell us how to run the business based on their own presumptions of how the business should be run. I think part of the frustration is that we've been over this argument many times already, and the answer from us has been fairly consistent, I think. I don't agree with all of the choices either, sometimes - and I work here! - but I'm also privy to the numbers, and when Bill says that it's a negative 80% difference in profit, he's not just blowing smoke up your ass. We're trying to do more varied things (look for something special later this year) but we have to make sure the product isn't so varied that it drives us out of business.

Different people find different things funny.. that's just how it is. I personally thought the Transformers track was hilarious, other people have found it mediocre or worse. Who is correct in this instance? I'm going to go on a limb and suggest that both sides are correct. "What is funny to someone" is subjective.

To sum up, your opinions are being heard, as they always are. We can only explain in so many ways why the choices are made the way they are. I am sorry if some tracks are so bad that you want your money back - but I can understand your plight. All I can suggest is reading up on others' opinions of a track for an idea if something's funny, but again, since opinions may differ, just because the forum thought Daredevil was funny doesn't mean you will, too.

If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.  

Fair enough.   For example, if everyone is on commission, then my tax ideas wouldn't work, etc. 

I meant this to be well-intentioned comments from a 18+ year fan.  If it has denigrated into something else, I am sorry. 

You will never convince me that you are not in danger long-term by getting too far away from the roots of MST3K.  Perhaps my opinions and suggestions are lousy.  Perhaps you've heard it all before.  Perhaps you are lunkheads.  I don't know.  Since you are saying "overkill,"  I will choose to take you at your word. 

At what point does "we've heard it too many times" become "why didn't we listen?" 

[James of LinHood]

I think it's frustrating to some of us who are on the business end of things, having people tell us how to run the business based on their own presumptions of how the business should be run.

Good Lord, misinterpret much?  No one is telling or demanding that you run your business in a certain way.  We're requesting it.  Big difference.  We would like it if you'd riff older as well as newer flicks like you used to.

And we debate this because some of your reasoning just seems flawed.  As I've said in this very thread, if your newer movie releases are selling so damn well, would it really hurt to take a bit of a hit for your hardcore fans now and then and riff an older movie?  I don't think so.  I can't believe that riffing an older movie once in awhile would bring Rifftrax down.  The fact that you guys could riff older movies in your first year of business and still stay afloat supports that.  That's all.  Just my two cents.

Am I demanding that you do anything?  Hell no.  Learn to read.  It's a request.  We're asking you to riff older flicks now and then, not telling you to.

[Conor]

Conor calls foul on account of someone saying "Learn to Read" and locks the thread for a time out.

[Conor]

Conor calls foul on account of someone saying "Learn to Read" and locks the thread for a time out.

After a brief time out, we resume your regular discussion.

[RVR II]

...And.. Unlocked for More Battle!

[torgosPizza]

You will never convince me that you are not in danger long-term by getting too far away from the roots of MST3K. 

Thank you for your understanding, but yes, I can honestly tell you that if RiffTrax did nothing but MST3k-type films, we would not be here right now.

Am I demanding that you do anything?  Hell no.  Learn to read.  It's a request.  We're asking you to riff older flicks now and then, not telling you to.

Sorry James, we're trying to level with you, but you continue to bring condescension and a "holier than thou" attitude to this debate every single time. Whether it's a demand or request, the bottom line is that we can't always do what you ask. We've explained this countless times, phrased different ways, but it never seems to get through. We definitely - read that again: definitely - plan on throwing more bones to fans of the older stuff. I can tell you that with 100% honesty. But it takes some time, and we have to balance it with products that will actually make money and keep the business operating.

Your idea that we could "Afford to do older movies in the first year and still stay afloat" isn't looking long-term. Within the first year RiffTrax was still an experiment. Mike didn't even think it would work due to technical limitations - as he said in some of his earlier interviews. And it's true that the only reason RiffTrax isn't bigger is because some people are still scared off by the prospect of syncing things up, which is why we had a player developed, and which is why we've tried other avenues. But once a business learns that you can't continue selling a certain product, because they just don't sell enough to let the company break even, that means you have to adjust.

I don't know if you want us to show you our books, or our receipts from Taco Bell for you to realize that we're not making money hand-over-fist here. I understand your frustration, I really do (I am speaking as a fan first - that's how I got this job in the first place) and as I've said, sometimes I don't agree with doing the newer or better movies. So I am with you on that one, and I think we are somewhat on the same page.

But I think there is some give and take, when we explain to you what it is that drives the business, and attempt to reason with you (as I am doing now) the very least we ask is that you take what we say at face value. No one is pissing in anyone's ears and telling them it's raining. These are truths, and I understand that it's not what you guys want to hear - but understand that telling you the truth is probably a lot better than telling you nothing at all.

[James of LinHood]

.

Sorry James, we're trying to level with you, but you continue to bring condescension and a "holier than thou" attitude to this debate every single time.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  Condescension?  Holier than thou attitude?  Um, I think you're misinterpreting me once again.  If you take anything I say like that you've got it wrong.  Because that's certainly not my intent.  Really, I thought that you knew me just a little bit better than that.

Again, it's kinda funny to me that you tend to take this so personally.  I've told you many times before and I'll tell you once again.  I understand that you have no real personal input on the kinds of movies that Mike and the guys riff.  That's up to them.  So, please don't act like I'm talking directly to you, as if I think this is your fault. 

And please don't act like I'm making demands of you.  You get so defensive in your counter arguments that I have to go back and reread my posts and ask myself if I was trying to bully you into anything.  Then, when I see that I have not, your retorts confuse and sometimes even amuse me.  You tend to overreact.  Seriously, relax.  If you think what I'm saying is bullshit then you really don't have to respond.

Sometimes I just like to voice my opinions on here.  That's all.  I'm truly sorry if I'm not happy with every single thing that Mike and the guys have done.  But I'm just not a fanboy.

[Doc Steve]

You will never convince me that you are not in danger long-term by getting too far away from the roots of MST3K. 

Thank you for your understanding, but yes, I can honestly tell you that if RiffTrax did nothing but MST3k-type films, we would not be here right now.

Am I demanding that you do anything?  Hell no.  Learn to read.  It's a request.  We're asking you to riff older flicks now and then, not telling you to.

Sorry James, we're trying to level with you, but you continue to bring condescension and a "holier than thou" attitude to this debate every single time. Whether it's a demand or request, the bottom line is that we can't always do what you ask. We've explained this countless times, phrased different ways, but it never seems to get through. We definitely - read that again: definitely - plan on throwing more bones to fans of the older stuff. I can tell you that with 100% honesty. But it takes some time, and we have to balance it with products that will actually make money and keep the business operating.

Your idea that we could "Afford to do older movies in the first year and still stay afloat" isn't looking long-term. Within the first year RiffTrax was still an experiment. Mike didn't even think it would work due to technical limitations - as he said in some of his earlier interviews. And it's true that the only reason RiffTrax isn't bigger is because some people are still scared off by the prospect of syncing things up, which is why we had a player developed, and which is why we've tried other avenues. But once a business learns that you can't continue selling a certain product, because they just don't sell enough to let the company break even, that means you have to adjust.

I don't know if you want us to show you our books, or our receipts from Taco Bell for you to realize that we're not making money hand-over-fist here. I understand your frustration, I really do (I am speaking as a fan first - that's how I got this job in the first place) and as I've said, sometimes I don't agree with doing the newer or better movies. So I am with you on that one, and I think we are somewhat on the same page.

But I think there is some give and take, when we explain to you what it is that drives the business, and attempt to reason with you (as I am doing now) the very least we ask is that you take what we say at face value. No one is pissing in anyone's ears and telling them it's raining. These are truths, and I understand that it's not what you guys want to hear - but understand that telling you the truth is probably a lot better than telling you nothing at all.

I think I may do us all a service by spelling it out:

There must be a much greater disconnect between the MST3K fanbase and the Rifftrax fanbase than many of us imagine.  That seems logical, for a lot of reasons.  Still, someone had to convince me.    

Well, you got me.  I have to admit that I was scared off from Rifftrax before the integrated/synched releases.  (My buying history will confirm it, and you have my invitation to look.)  After that, I only bought the Rifftrax to the movies I owned for a few months.  It's easy to forget these things after 25+ releases.    

What I am hearing is that the margin is much thinner than I imagined.  I am also hearing that Rifftrax lost money for a while, which affects the "what about before" rationale.  More importantly, I do realize that the recession will affect you soon, if not already.

The "pee in my ear and tell me it's raining" was directed at some of the absolutist comments.  For example, I wasn't asking for older movies, per se.   I was pointing out that the summer blockbusters are all too similar; therefore, the Rifftrax themselves become too similar.  To me, saying that any older movie is the road to the poor house is obviously not true.  Star Wars and E.T. would surely sell well, just for example.  If I am dead wrong, then margins must be really thin.      

The main problem that I think the minority of us have is not trying one last time.  Many of the older films done so far had multiple strikes against them, and I am sure you aware of those arguments.  The sales base has grown larger, and you might be pleasantly surprised.  Again, we're not asking for The Brain from Planet Arous.  We're asking for anything, something that didn't feature its main characters on the side of a Big Gulp plastic cups that summer.  

Random Thought:  One thing that I have noticed is that Rifftrax never mentions that VHS works with Rifftrax.  I don't have the Star Trek offerings on DVD.  They work fine with the old VHS releases.  So has WIlly Wonka, Fifth Element, and The Sixth Sense.  This may be well-known, or it may not be.  It was definitley a deciding factor in my buying the Star Trek set and some of the others mentioned.   Maybe it would be a good thing to mention on the catalog entries.  I would think people would figure it out on their own, but there's that whole "finding Canada on a map" thing.  

[Edward J Grug III]

If it isn't working for you, you might have to start looking elsewhere.

Ah.  Gotta love the "If you're not a rabid Rifftrax fanboy get the hell out" attitude.

That wasn't my point at all.

My point is they've responded to the criticisms (more than you'd get from most companies too)

You've made the same arguements again.

They've responded again.

etc etc etc.

Sooner or later you guys have to realize that if the majority of people like things, and if the guys are giving very reasonable answers to things, maybe the problem isn't with them. Maybe the product isn't for you.

No one's saying they don't want you to like it. You're saying you don't.

No one's saying they don't want you to buy the product. You're saying you aren't.

They guys have said they are trying other methods, other ideas, and Rifftrax continues to evolve. If it's moved away from where you guys want it to be, you have to understand it's because that's what everyone else wants them to be. (At least at the moment)

They are a small company. The DO listen/read the comments here. They have made MANY changes based on what people want, and that's how they are where they are.

Lastly, they've said many times, there are more and different things on the horizon. If you don't dig what's happening now, maybe in a few months you will.

If not, what more can you except of them?