Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

[bettertomorrowamy]

If you ask for a Coke in the Midwest they will either give you a Coke, or they will say, "I'm sorry we only serve Pepsi products."  I don't know how that relates exactly, but I'm sure it will evolve into something meaningful.

[Tripe]

Hell you need to ask for Pop here in MI, wasn't there a thread about that a while back?

[AmandaGal]

I'm from the South. You're lucky we don't call it sody water.

You guys still call all tissue kleenex right? . . . I really didn't mean to bring the thread off topic.  I swear the coke thing was marginally on topic when I typed it out.

[bettertomorrowamy]

I'm from the South. You're lucky we don't call it sody water.

You guys still call all tissue kleenex right? . . . I really didn't mean to bring the thread off topic.  I swear the coke thing was marginally on topic when I typed it out.

Yeah, it's mostly Kleenex here.

[RVR II]

Kinda like Toilet paper and Charmin.. The 'necks' in my part simply call it all Shit Paper

[bettertomorrowamy]

Who calls toilet paper, Charmin?  Besides Charmin.

[daltysmilth]

All I know is outside of a commercial, I've never heard anyone call it "bathroom tissue".  Nor have I heard anyone outside a commercial pronounce the "o" in realtor.

[RVR II]

Who calls toilet paper, Charmin?  Besides Charmin.

Some of the 'less evolved'

[BathTub]

I am reading a bunch of threads on this subject and wow some of them are scary! However probably the funniest argument to me is that Cdesign Proponentsists point to fraudulent fossils like Piltdown Man, and say, look that fake fossil proves the science is false!  Because clearly it proven to be false by voodoo, rather than any scientists doing science type things on it.

[daltysmilth]

In response to Tripe, I would remind him of my position that science and religion need not be mutually exclusive.  I just don't think that evolution should be taught in such a way (and I'm afraid that in many cases, it is) that it makes it seem like ID would be completely impossible, anymore than I think churches should teach that if God (or whatever deity or consciousness or what-have-you) created the universe, then evolution is impossible.  And I know for a fact that many Church's do indeed teach that.  Even prominent Catholics, though the official position of the church is the concept of Creator-guided evolution, preach that evolution is, by its very nature, an incorrect and even sinful idea.  My mom watches this ultra-conservative Catholic TV network called EWTN, and I know I've heard people on there say that things like evolution are completely inconsistant with Catholicism.  Needless to say, quite a few programs on there make me extremely frustrated with how ignorant they are.

[Tyrant]

a cripplingly accurate account of modern day scientific theories about our origens.

I'm confused. Cripplingly accurate? I'm really not sure how the metaphor of being animated from dust and then having woman created from a rib can be translated into anything remotely close to the theories of life's origins. (Which, again, I emphasize is not what evolutionary theory is really involved in).

Perhaps you could elaborate a little more as to how you think genesis could be an accurate description of the big bang theory? I'm not convinced parable and metaphor were the intention for stories like these - to be honest, I think it was the best that the literate classes could come up with at the time.

Well, perhaps cripplingly accurate is not the best phrase since words and terms we use today weren't around back then, but I think it's simple. Genesis describes God essentially pulling reality out of nothingness (the whole "Let there be light" thing). Look at any Big Bang model and it describes everything we know extending outward (and continuing outward) from that one event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang with lots of debate about universal composition prior (possibly refered to in the Bible as merely 'void'). You've probably heard it before, but the 6 days Genesis says it takes to create everything could have been 6 billion/trillion years, or ages if longer. The trouble is that science doesn't have 100% proof on all the hard numbers/dates/stages for all the models available (yet, if ever). Regardless,  I think just the revelation that there's an outward domino effect from a single universal point, worded very basically in Genesis, is pretty cool despite no human on Earth being able to scientifically prove it at the time.

Webster's definition of the Big Bang Theory:

: a theory in astronomy: the universe originated billions of years ago in an explosion from a single point of nearly infinite energy density.


   As for the creation of man, we're made of carbon essentially. It's also what our planet is made of. It's what we turn back into when we rot in the ground. Genesis says God made us from dust from the Earth. Not much of a stretch from saying that life began in proto-organism form in a puddle of mud somewhere. Again, all metaphor.

[Bairman]

"If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils.  I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, day one!"

- Evil  (Time Bandits)

[AmandaGal]

I was catching up on Slashdot and I noticed a link to the Complete Work Of Charles Darwin.   Some 20,000 items and 90,000 images were posted on April 17.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/

[Tripe]

In response to Tripe, I would remind him of my position that science and religion need not be mutually exclusive.  I just don't think that evolution should be taught in such a way (and I'm afraid that in many cases, it is) that it makes it seem like ID would be completely impossible, anymore than I think churches should teach that if God (or whatever deity or consciousness or what-have-you) created the universe, then evolution is impossible.  And I know for a fact that many Church's do indeed teach that.  Even prominent Catholics, though the official position of the church is the concept of Creator-guided evolution, preach that evolution is, by its very nature, an incorrect and even sinful idea.  My mom watches this ultra-conservative Catholic TV network called EWTN, and I know I've heard people on there say that things like evolution are completely inconsistant with Catholicism.  Needless to say, quite a few programs on there make me extremely frustrated with how ignorant they are.

Hello, Catholic here (not the best or most devout Catholic but hey), I was also the one who pointed out that both Mendel and Lemaître were priests. I am perfectly aware that religion and science can be (semi) compatible, you keep arguing against what you presume I believe when my posts state often exactly the opposite. You need to actually read my posts a little closer it seems. I mean I can write them in another language if it would make it easier.

And no, ID is completely incompatible with science and it and its proponents have no place in a science classroom. So yes if a science class mentions ID at all it should be to mock and deride both the concept and those that support it. Because ID isn't simply saying God had a hand in evolution, no ID says "evolution is impossible only god can do this shit". To support this ludicrous position they trot out poorly reasoned arguments based on shoddy understanding of very basic science, not least of all the scientific method.

Because here's the thing, one can be a proponent of Evolutionary theory and still be a theist, one cannot propose ID and be anything but an entirely ignorant creationist. You are not either a ID supporting Theist or and Evolutionary Theory supporting Atheist, you are either somebody who can grasp science regardless of your personal theology or you are a drooling moron who can't even handle the very basics scientific concepts.

And again this is not about the validity of religion but the validity of teaching junk like ID in a science classroom. Take a look at the creation science institute website and tell me if valuable time and money should be wasted by shoe-horning that shite into a science curriculum rather than actually giving children a grounding in concepts that might actually help them understand the world and be able to investigate it.

[bettertomorrowamy]

I still don't understand how the Theory of Evolution kills God.  It does make Bible literalists look like morons, but there isn't anything that eliminates the hand of God in the theory.