Thoughts on cinematic titanic

[stansimpson]

Can this (and other similar) posts just be hurled into one giant trash heap of a thread called "Mike vs. Joel"?  It'd be like a flaming tire yard that could just burn itself for a few millennia.

[Cabot]

I may not have cared for The Oozing Skull myself, but I do look forward to what CT maybe putting out in the future.

I didn't care for it either but hey it's only the first one so I'll be giving them many chances

[darkside]

Thankfully both projects are fairly inexpensive to support and even with the ocassional MST3K boxset I can buy everything both groups release.

I think Mike deserves credit for everything he has done with The Film Crew and Rifftrax, but from what I have read Joel and Trace had been planning something along the lines of CT for a long time so I don't think it was just a case of seeing Rifftrax and saying lets copy that. 

The thing I really like is both projects are pretty different.  Mike has a certain edge to the Rifftrax writing I like for major films and Joel has recaptured a more MSTie feel for CT not to mention the shadowrama look of the old show.  Both complement each other well and the thing I hope for the most is the success of both projects.

[izatright]

I like it all.  I'm down with anything Mike, Bill, Kevin and Joel do.  It's the fan rip offs that won't get my support.

[Cabot]

I like it all.  I'm down with anything Mike, Bill, Kevin and Joel do.  It's the fan rip offs that won't get my support.

I can't say I don't support 'em however I'm interested in 'em either. one day I might give them a chance but if I wanna do that I might as just invite my boring friends over and riff on movies myself (not to say the fan rips are boring but...).

[pyro]

These are people that with one exception- quit MST3k.  They thought it was time to move on, weren't happy doing it, were bored, or just thought the show and idea had run it's course.

Weird to say that, but then use this reference:

Joel has flat out not acknowledged Rifftrax in an interview where a question was asked about it.

Which is from the same article where Joel explained the reason he left (likely the same unnamed person Mike didn't refer to in an article) and said he really didn't want to but felt he had to.


And just since I'm here... Never fully bought into the bandwagon idea...  Star Wait came out in 2005, the movie it's based on came out in 2002, and Reefer Madness was released in 2004 which probably didn't get enough attention to make them jealous... Rifftrax/Film Crew may have been a part in them doing this, but Trace and Josh were also doing AFHV for years as well as the Star Wait thing of the 3 of them, so it's not like this is the first time they've all been back doing this in 10 years just to ride Mike's coattails.

Also, surprised no one brought up 'Glitter' to his 2 camps delusion.  Sorry brah, the glass is half full and great minds think alike

[torgosPizza]

Before this turns into a flame war, I'd like to say that a "camp" is often used to describe two groups of people with the same ideals - political, or whatever. So it is true that there is a RiffTrax camp and a CT camp - since there are two riffing groups selling a product in which they riff on movies. Mary Jo riffing on Glitter can now be considered to be a crossover event, but that doesn't destroy the fact that there are two separate riffing groups. So at that, Tibbs is correct.

It's fair enough to say "I won't be buying it because I don't think it'll be good." That's loads different from "I'm not buying it because JOEL SUXX)RZ AND STOLE MIKE'S IDEA!!!!11one1" which, to be honest, is kind of a silly argument. As far as I know, nobody's copyrighted the idea of riffing on movies. Just my personal opinion, anyway - and for an MST fan, I'm surprised that the CT experiment isn't at least invoking a smidge of interest in you.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

As far as I know, nobody's copyrighted the idea of riffing on movies. Just my personal opinion, anyway - and for an MST fan, I'm surprised that the CT experiment isn't at least invoking a smidge of interest in you.

The lack of interest surprises me as well.  I'll never understand the lengths people will go through to invent reasons for not liking something.

I'll have to admit I didn't like the sample they made for Oozing Skull, a better sample would get more people interested.  And lackluster reviews don't mean bad reviews, I don't think I've seen any bad reviews of CT#1, it's unfortunate that it comes out after we've had some of the best from RiffTrax (all the holiday stuff) so there's an unfair comparison going on. 

[Fortis]

It's fair enough to say "I won't be buying it because I don't think it'll be good." That's loads different from "I'm not buying it because JOEL SUXX)RZ AND STOLE MIKE'S IDEA!!!!11one1" which, to be honest, is kind of a silly argument. As far as I know, nobody's copyrighted the idea of riffing on movies. Just my personal opinion, anyway - and for an MST fan, I'm surprised that the CT experiment isn't at least invoking a smidge of interest in you.

I really tried giving CT a chance, I did a lot of research on what people were  saying about it, watched the trailer. And I saw a huge amount of potential, seeing the riffers was extremely satisfying. But like I said before, even when watching MST3K, I just could never really get into the riffing style that Joel had. I can see why people would think its funny, but I just like Mike's delivery better. Which is really unfortunate as that is tons of episodes of MST3K I will probably never watch.

I do however, want CT to do really well. And a Mike and Joel Rifftrax would be awesome. So on that note I would like to say...CT HAD BETTER BE GOOD, AND RIFFTRACTSSS TO!!!111!!!!

[jinifuru]

I'm going to check it out - I'm a Mike-Kevin-Joel-Trace-Bill-and whoever else fan.

At first glance, I do not like how crowded the screen is and the scaffolding setup....I can't see the movie!!

I've gotten used to Rifftrax and I don't really want anyone in the frame - just the commentary, please.

Otherwise, I am looking forward to it.

[allhailtheriff]

I watched the trailer, I really liked the layout of the six riffers all standing/sitting there, that made me laugh. Sadly, nothing else did. I really want them to do well, I think it is awesome they are doing it, but I gotta say, I prefer Rifftrax, I don't know if it is better writing, or just delivery. But I'm sticking with Rifftrax.

I have nothing against Joel, but for some reason I can't watch any of the MST3K's with him in them, I know they all had pretty much the same writers and stuff throughout all the seasons, but I think Mike has more charisma and better delivery than Joel.

So good luck Cinematic Titanic, I will check you out again when your next movie comes out, but the Oozing skull hasn't really interested me.

I'm with you 100%.  I'll support CT and buy their DVDs, but I have to say I find RT extremely funnier.  It's the mike vs. joel pandora's box again - and I don't wanna start that foolishness up, but my personal preference will always be Mike and the gang.  Joel's riffs are a little too dry and more like just clever observations.  not my bag.  I don't enjoy joel episodes of MST3K either.

[NeoMyers]

I'm old enough, as I'm sure a few of us are, to remember MST with both Joel and Mike. Obviously, with DVDs anyone can see some of Joel's episodes, but it was different to watch Joel, Joel, Joel, ...Mike. In the end, I found that I preferred Mike's more "cutting" style than Joel's kind of laid back goofiness. In fact, it might be why I enjoy the Episode I rifftrax so much; Mike and Kevin don't give that movie, Lucas, or any of the actors an inch--and with the right movies it works.

But all of that isn't to say that I didn't like Joel as a host. "Mitchell", "Eegah", and the infamous "Manos" are among my favorite MST episodes. That said, however, I didn't really think the CT project looked that funny. I'll confess that some of that may be due to my feeling that Joel kind of abandoned the show to move onto bigger, better things. That always rubbed me the wrong way. Furthermore, he kind of brushed off MST questions when interviewed.

So, it's not surprising at all to me that after years of mostly mediocre gigs and performances, just as Rifftrax gets really popular, all of a sudden Joel wants to get back to his roots and get back into riffing. There's something too convenient about that. I know that some of you just love riffing of all kinds and think of it as one big family, but even though the guys keep saying they're "wishing CT the best" by the fact that's the line they keep using, it seems like they might have another opinion and are just being civil.

Maybe I'm being silly and reading too much into things, but Mike stuck with it. Mike never seems ashamed that he's that "MST guy." I think, for a time, Joel tried to distance himself from it. Which is his right. But it's also mine to stick with Rifftrax.

[DanLW]

I think RiffTrax and CT fill two different niches.

Growing up watching MST3K, I always thought it woudl be neat to do newer more modern movies.  Unfortunately, it would be highly expensive to do so since the rights would have to be purchased.  So RiffTrax fulfills that dream since they have figured out a way to riff movies without having to gain rights to whatever movie they riff.

The CT project fulfills my one wish with RiffTrax - that the sillouetes could be seen during the movie so tha thte sight gags could make a return.  Unfortunately, the only way to do sillouetes would be to do it digitally or chroma-keyed, and distribute it on a DVD.  It's unfortunate because again, they have to purchase the rights to the movie in order to distribute it.

Could sillouetes be done with modern movies?  I can think of only two ways.  One would be with a special software program that super-imposes the sillouetes.  The other would be to provide some sort of video processing hardware that would insert the sillouete into the video image.  Both have their drawbacks.  Software would only allow a sillouete Rifftrax to be viewed on a PC, or on a home theater setup where the media player is a home theater PC.  The hardware problem would be that it would probably be a bit pricey.

So, because of these technical and legal difficulties, I see CT and RiffTrax as filling two different niches which both have to do with making fun of movies.

However, I really do hope that they will get together and do crossover projects.  Both with Mike, Kevin and Bill doing a CT and Joel, Frank, Josh, Trace, and Mary coming over to do some Rifftrax projects.  Ideally they would just merge the two products and release both Rifftrax and CT releases.  Honestly, now that I think about it, I think Rifftrax is moving in the CT direction with their experaments with the Rifftrax on Demand.  The next logical step would be to offer a digital download of a full length movie (albeit public domain) complete with sillouetes.  I wish they could just combine their talents and do both.

As for which host was better, I was sad to see Joel leave.  But I did like Mike also.  They both have their own styles, and for me, they both worked very well.  Comparing Joel and Mike is like comparing Drama and Sci-Fi.  Is one better than the other?  No, they are different styles.  Some people prefer one, some the other.  As for me, I like them both.

On one final note, it will never truly be a MST3K reincarnation without THE BOTS!  I mean, I can't see a human actor pulling off the type of comedy and jokes that the bots were able to pull off.  It just doesn't work as well.  Unfortunately, even if bots are brought back, I doubt it would be possible to bring back THE bots in the form of Crow, Tom and Gypsy, since their likenesses are probably owned by Best Brains aka Jim Mallon.  Too bad.  Perhaps Best Brains will bring back MST3K as a digital download product.  But if the rumors are even slightly true, it seems that the original cast wouldn't be on board.

Well, enough rambling.

[Conor]

Just don't forget that RiffTrax is just about as open ended a format as we decide it is.  Though by the necessity of the way the downloadable trax work, it is important for people to have access to the DVDs, hence popular movies.  But through DVD distribution and VOD, this opens the door to more obscure movies like Missile to the Moon, as well as short format stuff.  Hopefully we'll continue to be able to keep things varied and interesting as we go forward.

[Quicksilver]

My thought; I wont watch it for reasons that wont be good enough, but I will  continue to buy every rifftrax and VOD that comes out. I just cant officially take sides, Rifftrax is funny as hell and I only time for so many things