CT pirates....

[Nergol]

imrahil;

You can say that, and doubtless you have more than a few valid reasons why you don't like iTunes, but iTunes is big and a lot of people go there - especially people of the "hip" demographic that's likely to spend money on something like CinTit.

Bottom line: If CinTit doesn't get a digital distribution channel going, I fear they'll end up being eaten alive by piracy, not because people are too cheap to buy CinTit's DVDs, but just because BitTorrenting their DVDs is way faster and more convenient than sending away for a physical DVD to come in the mail. That's a business model that's just too clunky and old-fashioned to really work.

[Chaos]

imrahil;

You can say that, and doubtless you have more than a few valid reasons why you don't like iTunes, but iTunes is big and a lot of people go there - especially people of the "hip" demographic that's likely to spend money on something like CinTit.

Bottom line: If CinTit doesn't get a digital distribution channel going, I fear they'll end up being eaten alive by piracy, not because people are too cheap to buy CinTit's DVDs, but just because BitTorrenting their DVDs is way faster and more convenient than sending away for a physical DVD to come in the mail. That's a business model that's just too clunky and old-fashioned to really work.

iTunes also takes 40% of every single sale, despite doing none of the work. CT is already practically priced out of the business before they even got off the ground... for the price to be as high as it is, their profit margin must be exceedingly thin. I doubt they could afford iTunes, nor would iTunes probably want to "risk" them. Despite your apparent feelings on the matter, iTunes is not the answer to everything. Most "hip" people who are not "hip" in the synonymous with "stupid" way actually understand that iTunes is a pathetic joke. Netflix is a much better venture, because it is FUNCTIONAL.

And please stop calling them CinTit, it's a very disturbing nickname. *shudder*

[BEERxTaco]

We're just not in a world in which people have the patience to wait three weeks - or even one week - for a physical DVD to show up. I realy think this may be a make-or-break for CinTit as a business venture. It's not 1990, and a 1990 business model just isn't going to cut it.

EZTakes allows for immediate download and burn to DVD, so that's hardly a 1990 business model. They just didn't get the download rights to Oozing Skull in time to correspond with the physical disk release. It will be downloadable in April I think, and future releases should be downloadable immediately upon release.

iTunes might be a big deal, but it's not a big deal to everyone 

[AmandaGal]

iTunes also takes 40% of every single sale, despite doing none of the work. CT is already practically priced out of the business before they even got off the ground... for the price to be as high as it is, their profit margin must be exceedingly thin. I doubt they could afford iTunes, nor would iTunes probably want to "risk" them. Despite your apparent feelings on the matter, iTunes is not the answer to everything. Most "hip" people who are not "hip" in the synonymous with "stupid" way actually understand that iTunes is a pathetic joke. Netflix is a much better venture, because it is FUNCTIONAL.

And please stop calling them CinTit, it's a very disturbing nickname. *shudder*

I wonder how much the original content producers get from Netflix, but my guess is not even as much as iTunes gives them and probably not by a download by download basis. Rental companies like Blockbuster don't pay like that.

I don't think that would be a viable way for CT to recoup.  Maybe in a few years it will be a good option for them.

That being said, I'm all for it. I could watch it for free

[AmandaGal]

As would iTunes.  They show recommendations.  It's like the argument that downloading mp3s makes people buy more music but really, a lot, not all, of people who download mp3s are cheap bastards who wouldn't buy music anyway.

I just don't see why that option is any better than iTunes for Joel.  It's better for me.  I think it's better for old movies and studio produced stuff.

I think if their current model worked (like Rifftrax), it would be better than either option.

[Nergol]

To make clear, I'm not saying CinTit (sorry, Chaos, but the nickname seems to have been established by the time I got here, so I'm just going to go with it) should distribute exclusively through iTunes - multiple ways of making their produce accessible, including direct website download (i.e. what RiffTrax does), download from other websites like Netflix or Amazon, and physical DVD sales are all good. And neither am I so married to iTunes that I'd advise to stick with them if there were other download services that were comparable in popularity and on which CinTit could get a better deal. But the point is that Apple can charge that 40% precisely because they're still the 800 pound gorilla in the legal download business. Yes, with an iTunes deal, the profit margin will be thin, so you're relying on volume. But they can deliver the kind of volume that no one else can at the moment.

And then there's the issue of making CinTit available to play over video iPods. CinTit is exactly the kind of thing that's perfect to play on an iPod - the humor is largely verbal and there's no need for great video quality. It's also cool and funny, but not deep or involving, which makes it perfect for subway rides or lunch breaks.

I don't pirate RiffTrax because I understand basic economics. If Mike can't make his house payment by doing RiffTrax for a living, there won't be any more RiffTrax. Since I want there to be more RiffTrax, I pay. But if we really had a good grasp of basic economics in this country, we wouldn't be in an economic meltdown because of subprime mortgages. A lot of people believe in magic money out there, including, but not limited to, the magic money that will allow Mike to make his house payment if everybody pirates RiffTrax instead of paying for them, or Joel to make his house payment if everybody pirates CinTits instead of paying for them. The belief in magic money is powerful, and anything that can be done to counteract it should be done.

As with every form of entertainment these days, the enemy is LimeWire and BitTorrent. The more that piracy is not just the cheap, but the way more convenient alternative to a legal purchase, the more that's going to be the preferred way of getting what you want. The reason that iTunes has become what it is is that Apple seems to be the only big entity out there that's really wrapped its head around that. The RIAA is stuck in 1990 and thinks it can sue its way out of the woes caused by an outdated business model. It can't. iTunes proves that people will pay for their music/movies/whatever in large numbers if it's as convenient as or more convenient than pirating it. Will everybody do the right thing and pay for a legal download if it's convenient? No, but large numbers will, and the more convenient the legal download is, the higher that number will be.

Well, anyhow, this rant has gone all over the place, so I'll leave it at that for now. Sorry if it kinda rambled - that's a hazard with me before 9AM.

[BEERxTaco]

You seem to have an issue with 1990...

[Raven]

Is everyone forgetting that the episodes will be availible in multiple media options in the future?  (Not directed at BEERxTaco and others who realize this.)  This was an error in the rights that they found out about at the last minute.   And they did send out a survey asking people which method they would prefer, so I'm sure they are aware of all of this.  Do you honestly think that the CT (better abbreviation than CinTit) have no idea what iTunes is?  I'm pretty sure they get it. 

[Steve-O]

And please stop calling them CinTit, it's a very disturbing nickname. *shudder*

Agreed.  I prefer CineTit, which sounds like a delicious breakfast confection you could buy at the the best mall ever.

[Chaos]

And please stop calling them CinTit, it's a very disturbing nickname. *shudder*

Agreed.  I prefer CineTit, which sounds like a delicious breakfast confection you could buy at the the best mall ever.

Or a pastry offering at one of those "naughty" bakeries?

My mouth is watering already.

[darkside]

I rarely if ever see a Rifftrax pirated on any of the BT sites I go to.  Yet CT went up in force almost immediately after the discs were shipped.
This is the problem with charging $16 for an episode and also by going through a service no one has heard of or trusts.

Joel really should have made a deal with Rhino or Shout factory or similar company so these could be released in stores.  His current model just makes no sense.  The iTunes thing actually sounds like the best solution yet.  At least some people will find it that way. 

$16 for a scratched up DVD sent in a mailer with no case.  Any wonder people would rather just steal it?  Part of the fun of owning the Film Crew DVDs besides the great movies was the nice job Shout Factory did with the packaging.  CT could really benefit from that.

[Chaos]

*IF* CineTit makes enough money from this initial venture, I think the first thing they need to do is drop EZTakes in the gutter where they belong and find a REAL distributor. Then they need to hire a professional like our main man Torgos to make a website that doesn't look like crap. Quality product, quality presentation... absolutely essential.

[RVR II]

*IF* CineTit makes enough money from this initial venture, I think the first thing they need to do is drop EZTakes in the gutter where they belong and find a REAL distributor. Then they need to hire a professional like our main man Torgos to make a website that doesn't look like crap. Quality product, quality presentation... absolutely essential.

And create a better looking forum as well

[Chaos]

The forum is the lifeblood of the fan community. *nods sagely*

[Teaflax]

Ahh, so DRM=UNA unfortunately necessary annoyances.

Nothing necessary about it., since it does absolutely nothing to stop or even discourage piracy. If anything, it drives potential customers away TO piracy.