THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!

[Justin]

I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

Because we're all huge Star Wars fans and we hoped the other films would be better.

[darthvedder81]

I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

Because we're all huge Star Wars fans and we hoped the other films would be better.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

It's fine if you were disappointed with the prequels and prefer the original trilogy but why can't some of you just admit there were some pretty cool aspects of episodes 1-3 and that's what kept you coming back for more and not soley because of the "good feelings" from episodes 4-6?

[LadyKenobi]

If you look through the thread, I think you'll find that several of us made positive comments.  I mean, for all my bitching, I did call the lightsaber battle in TPM as the best in the series and mentioned that I greatly enjoyed the music.  I was also obviously and vastly impressed with the development of Obi-Wan (points to username.)  Can't speak for all Star Wars fans, but even though I was hugely disappointed by TPM, there was enough I did like to soldier through the other two.

why can't some of you just admit there were some pretty cool aspects of episodes 1-3 and that's what kept you coming back for more and not soley because of the "good feelings" from episodes 4-6?

Because it's more complex than that.

For many of us, the investment in the Star Wars universe is emotional, not logical.  It was a big part of many of our childhoods, and hours and hours of escape to imaginary world can't be erased by a single movie.  I know that for me, I felt as if I "knew" the characters and wanted to see what would happen to them; I wanted to "be there" at big moments in the "history" of Star Wars.  So it was worth it to forgive Lucas for everything I hated in Ep II in order to see the beautiful depictions of the split-up of Luke and Leia in the final moments of Ep III.  It was worth it to hear Vader take his first mechanized breath.  And much as I rail against the use of CGI Yoda, it was still an unforgettable feeling to be in the theater and hear everybody cheer when he busted out the lightsaber and started kicking ass.

But largely, I didn't want to take the chance that I might miss it if JarJar got eaten by something very slowly.

[James of LinHood]

You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

Ummmm....the tone did shift in the next two prequels and that's why I found them to be much better than Episode 1.  Episode 1 was aimed at 6-year-old kids with a goal of selling toys.  Episodes 2 and 3 took a sharp turn away from that and started appealing to an older audience (hence Sith's PG-13 rating).

[mrbasehart]

It's a pity that Lucas will never do the planned three afterward.  I remember reading Zahn's trilogy and thinking they'd be perfect for adaptation.

[dlobro1080]

I still don't understand this, people: if you hated the previous movie so virulently why are you bothering with it's sequel. Nobody has yet to satisfactorily explain this contradiction to me.

Because we're all huge Star Wars fans and we hoped the other films would be better.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

It's fine if you were disappointed with the prequels and prefer the original trilogy but why can't some of you just admit there were some pretty cool aspects of episodes 1-3 and that's what kept you coming back for more and not soley because of the "good feelings" from episodes 4-6?

I didn't hate any of them.  Sith, in fact, is one of my favorite movies.

[dlobro1080]

You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

Ummmm....the tone did shift in the next two prequels and that's why I found them to be much better than Episode 1.  Episode 1 was aimed at 6-year-old kids with a goal of selling toys.  Episodes 2 and 3 took a sharp turn away from that and started appealing to an older audience (hence Sith's PG-13 rating).

Actually I think Episode 1 was supposed to be a shiny, goofy comic book of a story in order to contrast how dark and bleak Episode 3 was.  6 year olds could enjoy it, yes, but they'd be 12 by the time Epsiode 3 came out, and could see aesthetically and thematically how dark things had gotten.  Adults should've been able to pick up on that too, but what can you do.  Which is not to say that it makes Episode 1 a good movie.

[Justin]

The Star Wars EU books (other than the Zahn trilogy and Shadows of the Empire) are complete garbage and have done more to "ruin the franchise" than all the JarJars and midicholorians and phantom menace's in the world combined.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

I was just thinking.  For you to know for a fact that all the other EU books were complete garbage, that would have required a lot of reading considering they've been continuously published for the past fifteen years and there are dozens of books in the series.  Which leads me to the question:  If you hated all of the other books so much, why did you continue to read them?

[darthvedder81]

It's a pity that Lucas will never do the planned three afterward.  I remember reading Zahn's trilogy and thinking they'd be perfect for adaptation.

Zahn is one of the few, maybe the only, EU authors to get the Star Wars feel to transfer to the written page (though the "Hand of Thrawn" duology was disappointing).

When "Heir to the Empire" came out in the early nineties it really kind of summoned the return of Star Wars for a lot of us. Back then Star Wars, if you can believe it, had almost an underground feeling to it. There wasn't much merchandising at the time and only a handful of books and games.

Personally I'm looking forward to the live action TV show that's coming out. GL will not be writing or directing so that should make everyone here happy (or maybe not, not all non-Lucas involved Star Wars projects are gold).

I'd like to see guys like Kevin Smith and JJ Abrams working on it?talented writer/directors who appreciate and love all aspects of the saga.

[darthvedder81]

The Star Wars EU books (other than the Zahn trilogy and Shadows of the Empire) are complete garbage and have done more to "ruin the franchise" than all the JarJars and midicholorians and phantom menace's in the world combined.

Are you serious? You hated the first movie and you somehow thought that with the same principal actors, the same producer, and the same writer/director the tone would suddenly shift and the next installment would somehow be acceptable to you?

I was just thinking.  For you to know for a fact that all the other EU books were complete garbage, that would have required a lot of reading considering they've been continuously published for the past fifteen years and there are dozens of books in the series.  Which leads me to the question:  If you hated all of the other books so much, why did you continue to read them?

I don't know "for a fact" they are all bad but the dozen or so I have read have by and large left me very unimpressed.
I didn't continue to read them, that's my whole point. Once I saw the approach the EU authors were taking I stopped trying to keep up. There's a very consistent, dumb sci-fi tone in most EU novels that I don't care for.

Now if only people who went and saw PHANTOM MENACE were as consistent. 

[JonnyFrag]

Here's a bigger question: Have any Riffaholics not seen Phantom Menace? At all? (I know some of you said you couldn't make it all the way through.)

I've seen it plenty of times (including a Midnight showing on opening day back in 1999 where we stood outside in the hot Florida sun for over 12 hours twice, once to buy the tickets, then again on opening day.)  But I think it has been several years since I have seen it.  Like I said, I don't even have it on DVD.

I actually have come to think that Episode 1 isn't even the worst movie of the prequel trilogy.  That would be Episode II : Attack of the Over the Top, Really Bad CGI.

I thought Obi-Wan's little mystery movie within a movie (when he finds out about Jango) was the ONLY good thing in any of the new three.

Oh, you mean the subplot started in Clones, and then never touched upon again?
They started a whole mystery and then just let it lie there for Sith.

[JonnyFrag]

Waxing philisophical...and we all know how painful that can be!


As Sampo mentioned earlier, a big portion of the letdown from 'real fans' was the fact that George made movies for kids still, but we had all grown up since then. I am hoping that the television series can somehow fill the void of adult sized Star Wars. Even the Clone Wars cartoon seemed to have more things to appeal to the fans than TPM.
That, however, does not change the fact that the prequels suffer from poorly written dialogue, MTV style nanosecond editing, overloaded CGI and not as imaginative designs. Since George is intimately involved in editing, the sole writer and approver of all designs, that rest squarely on his shoulders.

Oh, and as an aside, my (now) 8 year old son thought Revenge of the Sith was the best Star Wars movies BY FAR.
I guess even the kids today are a bit more sophisticated than we were in the late 70s. Of course, this is partially due to George Lucas anyway....

[darthvedder81]

Waxing philisophical...and we all know how painful that can be!


As Sampo mentioned earlier, a big portion of the letdown from 'real fans' was the fact that George made movies for kids still, but we had all grown up since then. I am hoping that the television series can somehow fill the void of adult sized Star Wars. Even the Clone Wars cartoon seemed to have more things to appeal to the fans than TPM.
That, however, does not change the fact that the prequels suffer from poorly written dialogue, MTV style nanosecond editing, overloaded CGI and not as imaginative designs. Since George is intimately involved in editing, the sole writer and approver of all designs, that rest squarely on his shoulders.

Oh, and as an aside, my (now) 8 year old son thought Revenge of the Sith was the best Star Wars movies BY FAR.
I guess even the kids today are a bit more sophisticated than we were in the late 70s. Of course, this is partially due to George Lucas anyway....

Not as imaginative designs? Boy you lost me there. I thought the design team on all three prequels did an outstanding job with the props, vehicles, weapons, creatures and costumes. Certainly the costume design was better since it was virtually non-existent in the original trilogy. In fact I'd declare the designs and the music to be the true flawless elements of episodes 1-3.

As far as overabundance on CGI goes that's the world we live in now. I don't find stop-motion puppets with bad matte lines and static matte paintings to be any more "real" than CGI. Furthermore the prequels used more models and practical effects that any of the original films.

The LOTR movies had just as much CGI going on in them so that in and of itself can't really be a criticism can it?

[JonnyFrag]

I am not meaning that the design team was bad per se, but where is the iconic new designs? I say there is nothing as cool in all the prequels as:
The Millinieum (sp) Falcon
AT/ATs
Snow Speeders
A Wings
Super Star Destroyers
etc...

Was there even ONE designed idea that made you want to run out and get a toy or model of it?
Everything was all chrome and new etc... I liked the 'used universe' look of the OT.
Again, I may be speaking from a jaded 'adult' point of view , but really I am still a kid in the sense that I still like to buy cool toys....
for my kids of course 

Although the camoflagued Scout Trooper armor in Sith rocked hard...

and no, I am NOT a Prequel Hater. I place 2 of them before one of the OT movies myself. I just wish they had been...more.
Especially more space battles. I mean, it is called STAR Wars. Not Jedi Fights.

[LadyKenobi]

I don't find stop-motion puppets with bad matte lines and static matte paintings to be any more "real" than CGI. Furthermore the prequels used more models and practical effects that any of the original films.

But it just looked so... animated, so much like a cartoon.  Not for one single second did I think CGI Yoda looked real.  I mean, in Empire, I knew, intellectually, that he was a puppet, but at least he had that "flesh and blood and matter" look.  You could suspend your belief easier.  And that to the glass background painting in ANH when Obi-Wan is turning off the tractor beam... gorgeous.  I'm not saying they should go all the way back to the matte lines, but those final battles in Ep II weren't believeable to me in the slightest. 

It was one big fake orgasm.