THE PHANTOM MENACE - YES!!

[Sharktopus]

The superspeed is seen at the very beginning of the film, when they're running from the droidikas after escaping the poison gas.

Lucas and ingenius sound designer Ben Burtt even slipped in a faint whoosh-into-sonic boom sound effect when they make like the Flash there. Possibly the second goofiest sound effect in a major motion picture after the sublimely stupid bowling pin sound in Matrix Reloaded, quite possibly the silliest movie ever made that doesn't feature Leslie Nielsen.

[darthvedder81]

I'm also curious as to how TPM "ruined the franchise". The movie made $430 million dollars domestically and the following episodes also made well over $300 million. I agree that financial success doesn't equal creative merit (see "Titanic") but it's not as though people stopped going to see Star Wars after it came out. TPM also got more than 60% rating on rottentomatoes.com?not great, but better than a lot of movies. (RottenTomatoes has a really interesting article on how the prequels were actually much better reviewed overall than any of the movies of the original trilogy.)

It's interesting that a film so many people declared a failure had the success it had. If people really hated it so much would they have seen it multiple times (the only way any movie earns more than $400 million)? Or bothered going to see CLONES or SITH?

I know it's become popular to bash the prequels but something doesn't add up here?I don't know about you guys but I don't go to sequels (or prequels) of movies I hate.

[Sharktopus]

"Ruined" isn't really the right word, but the prequels - especially Ep I - certainly tarnished the franchise. Can you watch the original trilogy without that little thought in the back of your head that the scary mofo in the black helmet is really that whiny little "Are you an angel?" twirp?

One could argue, though, that The Matrix Reloaded ruined that franchise. I know more than one person who refused to see Revolutions after the meteroic letdown of Reloaded.

[J-Proof]

"Ruined" isn't really the right word, but the prequels - especially Ep I - certainly tarnished the franchise. Can you watch the original trilogy without that little thought in the back of your head that the scary mofo in the black helmet is really that whiny little "Are you an angel?" twirp?

One could argue, though, that The Matrix Reloaded ruined that franchise.

Reloaded was terrible imho. And yes - tarnished the franchise it did. But thankfully - cuz who wants a bunch of kids walking around in leather trenchcoats and sunglasses all the time anyway? =)

[J-Proof]

I'm also curious as to how TPM "ruined the franchise". The movie made $430 million dollars domestically and the following episodes also made well over $300 million. I agree that financial success doesn't equal creative merit (see "Titanic") but it's not as though people stopped going to see Star Wars after it came out. TPM also got more than 60% rating on rottentomatoes.com?not great, but better than a lot of movies. (RottenTomatoes has a really interesting article on how the prequels were actually much better reviewed overall than any of the movies of the original trilogy.)

It's interesting that a film so many people declared a failure had the success it had. If people really hated it so much would they have seen it multiple times (the only way any movie earns more than $400 million)? Or bothered going to see CLONES or SITH?

I know it's become popular to bash the prequels but something doesn't add up here?I don't know about you guys but I don't go to sequels (or prequels) of movies I hate.

I think the hope installed within us from the original trilogy was the reason for the success of all three prequels. And yes, the prequels were a gigantic financial success, but it's the opinions of the fans that matter in the end as to whether or not a movie is "good." Now - my dad, for instance, wanted to see all three prequels at the theater because he loved the original trilogy. He's in no way a "super" fan, just a fan, and he still loves to make fun of the prequels. Most super fans do too. The "success" of the prequels was nto fro mthe prequels themselves, but from the love that everyone has for the original trilogy.

[mrbakasan]

I think the hope installed within us from the original trilogy was the reason for the success of all three prequels. And yes, the prequels were a gigantic financial success, but it's the opinions of the fans that matter in the end as to whether or not a movie is "good." Now - my dad, for instance, wanted to see all three prequels at the theater because he loved the original trilogy. He's in no way a "super" fan, just a fan, and he still loves to make fun of the prequels. Most super fans do too. The "success" of the prequels was nto fro mthe prequels themselves, but from the love that everyone has for the original trilogy.

I totally agree with you on this.  As a kid I loved Star Wars, but when Episode 1 came out I just stopped caring about Star Wars.  For me it really did "ruin" the franchise.  While I still think the original trilogy is good, they will never have the same potency they once did.  The special editions of Star Wars set the ground work for me to become apathetic about Star Wars and Episodes 1 and 2 effectively finished the job.

[darthvedder81]

"Ruined" isn't really the right word, but the prequels - especially Ep I - certainly tarnished the franchise. Can you watch the original trilogy without that little thought in the back of your head that the scary mofo in the black helmet is really that whiny little "Are you an angel?" twirp?

One could argue, though, that The Matrix Reloaded ruined that franchise. I know more than one person who refused to see Revolutions after the meteroic letdown of Reloaded.

I used the word "ruined" because that's how TPM is described in the RiffTrax "About" section for the movie (albeit for comedic purposes).

The Matrix sequels were not only critical failures but also financial disappointments as well. The same just can't be said for the prequels.

And I personally don't buy the "people still had good feelings about the original movies so they kept going to see the prequels" argument. You don't keep going to see movies that you believe to be getting progressively worse?I don't anyway. I hated "The Matrix" so I didn't bother with it's two sequels. I didn't like the direction Peter Jackson took LOTR so I didn't bother with "Return of the King", etc.

I'm not saying people loved everything about the prequels but obviously the movies weren't all bad or they wouldn't have been so outrageously successful. That's all I'm saying.

[Sharktopus]

And I personally don't buy the "people still had good feelings about the original movies so they kept going to see the prequels" argument. You don't keep going to see movies that you believe to be getting progressively worse?I don't anyway. I hated "The Matrix" so I didn't bother with it's two sequels. I didn't like the direction Peter Jackson took LOTR so I didn't bother with "Return of the King", etc.

Well, personally, the good faith earned by my enjoying the first Matrix, even after hating the second, was at least half of why I bothered to see the third installment. The other half being morbid curiosity over "Where they hell were they going with this?" The same thing with Phantom Menace.

I'm curious what you disliked so much about LOTR that you couldn't bring yourself to watch the whole thing. (I can't help but consider it one really long movie.) As someone who absolutely adored it, I've yet to hear a suitable explanation for someone hating it. (And I don't consider "They left out Tom Bombadil!" as suitable. It's an adaptation.)

P.S. Apparently I am now a "senior member." Does that mean I have to pull my pants way up over my gut and complain about kids playing on my lawn?

[Cap'n UKRiffer]

P.S. Apparently I am now a "senior member." Does that mean I have to pull my pants way up over my gut and complain about kids playing on my lawn?

And tell us stories of the good old days when you didn't have to lock your doors and MTV actually showed music videos...

[James of LinHood]

The Matrix sequels were not only critical failures but also financial disappointments as well.

Wrong.  According to BoxOfficeMojo.com:

Matrix Reloaded - Cost:  $150 million
                        Worldwide gross:  $738 million

Matrix Revlolutions - Cost:  $150 million
                            Worldwide gross:  $424 million

I'm not sure if I'd call those last two movies financial dissapointments.  Especially since those numbers don't include DVD sales/rentals and that they were both rated R.

I don't know about you guys but I don't go to sequels (or prequels) of movies I hate.

I hated Phantom Menace and I still went to Clones and Sith.  Why?  Because the spoilers I read made those movies sound much better than Phantom Menace (and they were).  

Phantom Menace did tarnish the saga though.  If Phantom Menace had been any good then I would have never had to read the spoilers for the sequels in the first place.  So, I'm glad Phantom Menace is being riffed.  If there's a big budget movie out there that deserves a verbal ass kicking, it's Phantom Menace.

[darthvedder81]

And I personally don't buy the "people still had good feelings about the original movies so they kept going to see the prequels" argument. You don't keep going to see movies that you believe to be getting progressively worse?I don't anyway. I hated "The Matrix" so I didn't bother with it's two sequels. I didn't like the direction Peter Jackson took LOTR so I didn't bother with "Return of the King", etc.

Well, personally, the good faith earned by my enjoying the first Matrix, even after hating the second, was at least half of why I bothered to see the third installment. The other half being morbid curiosity over "Where they hell were they going with this?" The same thing with Phantom Menace.

I'm curious what you disliked so much about LOTR that you couldn't bring yourself to watch the whole thing. (I can't help but consider it one really long movie.) As someone who absolutely adored it, I've yet to hear a suitable explanation for someone hating it. (And I don't consider "They left out Tom Bombadil!" as suitable. It's an adaptation.)

P.S. Apparently I am now a "senior member." Does that mean I have to pull my pants way up over my gut and complain about kids playing on my lawn?

Mainly I thought the LOTR films lacked the charm and tone of the novel. I understand certain things have to be omitted for the sake of brevity (Tom Bombadil, etc.) but the feeling just wasn't there for me. Where were the ballads and merriment? The novel wasn't all darkness and wraiths and epic battles.

LOTR used to have sort of an underground, cult-following sort of feeling that was totally lost as soon as the movies came out. Maybe that's why I object to the movies more than anything else?I just miss the old days when it wasn't an enormous movie franchise.

Frankly I didn't like Peter Jackson or his co-writer wife's attitude about the material either. In one of the special features on the Fellowship DVD I remember hearing them almost bashing Tolkien and saying he "dropped the ball" when it came to the Arwen/Aragorn romance and that's why they played that up.  Excuse me? Who are you people? You made low budget New Zealand schlock and puppet porn and now you think Tolkien didn't know what he was doing so you put in a completely unnecessary romantic subplot into your adaptation. Uh-huh.

There were some environmentalist political undertones in TWO TOWERS that I didn't like as well.

The films are techinically very well made and I don't ferociously hate them or anything. I just don't like the interpretation I guess.

[Sharktopus]

Matrix Reloaded - Cost:  $150 million
                         Worldwide gross:  $738 million

Matrix Revlolutions - Cost:  $150 million
                             Worldwide gross:  $424 million

But notice the $314 million drop off? Assuming an average ticket price of $8, that means that over 39 million people were so turned off by Reloaded that they said "Screw it," to Revolutions. Yeah, it made money, but I bet the suits at WB were still pretty miffed about that.

[Pak-Man]

There were some environmentalist political undertones in TWO TOWERS that I didn't like as well.

Weren't there environmentalist political undertones in Two Towers BEFORE PJ got his hands on it? :^)

[Msampo]

I think the hope installed within us from the original trilogy was the reason for the success of all three prequels. And yes, the prequels were a gigantic financial success, but it's the opinions of the fans that matter in the end as to whether or not a movie is "good." Now - my dad, for instance, wanted to see all three prequels at the theater because he loved the original trilogy. He's in no way a "super" fan, just a fan, and he still loves to make fun of the prequels. Most super fans do too. The "success" of the prequels was nto fro mthe prequels themselves, but from the love that everyone has for the original trilogy.

I totally agree with you on this.  As a kid I loved Star Wars, but when Episode 1 came out I just stopped caring about Star Wars.  For me it really did "ruin" the franchise.  While I still think the original trilogy is good, they will never have the same potency they once did.  The special editions of Star Wars set the ground work for me to become apathetic about Star Wars and Episodes 1 and 2 effectively finished the job.

I've always felt that one of the key issues between Lucas the fanbase was the amount of time that elapsed between Jedi and TPM. Those intervening years gave the fanbase so much time to take the Star Wars universe in their own direction. The novels and the advent of the internet accellerated the process. By the time TPM arrived, the fanbase felt the Star Wars universe, as THEY has spent years envisioning it, was THEIRS. And they just assumed the Lucas was on the same page. When they heard a new movie was coming, they simply assumed it would take them seamlessly into the oh-so-serious, battle-hardened adult world that they had spent all those years building. Instead, they were confronted with a story that, while absorbing in some spots, was often flabby and confusing...and, worst of all, apparently aimed at the 7-year-olds in the audience. And when it wasn't entertaining the kiddies, it was introducing the opening gambits of an achingly gradual, wheels-within-wheels political/military/spiritual power-grab strategy that would not even become perceptible, much less come to fruition, for two more films. Tough to take. In short, it was clear to the fanbase, as they walked out of the theater, that Lucus did not understand what they thought of as THEIR world at all. In two hours, Lucas went from godhead to goat.
Ultimately, Lucas mostly won them back, by giving them a wonderful gift: The Clone War itself. The movies only show a few of the most momentous parts of what was a long and bloody war in which both sides won brilliant tactical victories. The animated series filled in some of the structure...but the rest of was left to the fanbase: a galaxy at war in which to write their own histories and exploits. Geek heaven. :-)

My personal opinion is that Lucas' biggest mistake in the second trilogy was not doing what he did in the first trilogy: delegating extensively. Quite frankly, George Lucas is a terrible dialog writer. And as a director, he's only really good at car chases. He should have sketched out the story but had more talented writers and directors do the actual work. TPM could have been tightened and enlivened. A better director might have gotten some decent performances out of the romantic leads in Episode Two (both of whom were uniformly horrible, though both are talented actors). Writers and directors who are, or at least understand, women could have Amidala something to do in the third film, besides look worried and die. But no, Lucas doggedly insisted on writing and directing, dragging what might have been truly marvelous films through keyhole of his limited vision, and, frankly, talent. Lucas has only himself to blame and TPM, as the slogan says, has it coming.

[Jeyl]

I personally thought that Episodes One and Two of the Star Wars prequal trilogy were a lot worse then Episode One. The way they made Boba Fett become part of a huge turning point annoyed me because it was only because Boba was so popular, and that Chewie cameo in Revenge of the Sith goes no where and does nothing. And all of Revenge of the Sith was bad in that Anakin joined the Dark Side in the name of love and not tyrany the way we all thought he did.