riffing good movies = mistake

[SaucyRossy]

I think the question of if a film is worthy or not should only apply is if the film would be funny with a rifftrax.  Whether that the movie is good or bad on its own should be mostly irrelevant.

You sir, speaketh the truth sir.

[sarcasm_made_Easy]

I think the question of if a film is worthy or not should only apply is if the film would be funny with a rifftrax.  Whether that the movie is good or bad on its own should be mostly irrelevant.

forsooth

[Hugo]

Like I said, I do her up proper and all is forgiven

Well, MN doesn't have the opportunity to "do me up proper" after he riffs a movie I like. So, he simply loses me as a customer for that particular movie. So far, he hasn't done a movie that I thought was mostly good. But I do happen to like The Matrix.

But it's all in good fun. Have you never "roasted" anyone?

A roast usually includes both praising and insulting someone. Riffing, so far, does not include praise. So, the two things are not the same. If MN roasted movies, that would be a different story.

If you have the "it's vicious" attitude, then NO movies should be riffed, since the people who put together even the "bad" movies truly believe that they are quality films. You think Britney wasn't proud of Crossroads, or Swayze of Roadhouse?

Whether the actors are proud of the crap in which they participate is not the issue. All I'm saying is that I hope MN is only riffing movies that HE believes are bad. Whether he should riff a movie has nothing to do with my evaluation of the movie or someone elses evaluation. It has to do with what MN thinks of the movie. If he thinks The Matrix is mostly bad, then so be it. I'll wait for the next RiffTrax. I fully realize that his evaluation of a movie is not going to be the same as mine all the time.

I still like X-Men and Halloween. As a matter of fact, I like them quite a bit more now, since I can enjoy them on a whole new level, as well as the original intent.

This is a good point. But "a whole new level" does not necessarily mean that the new level is good or pleasant. I will not know whether the RiffTrax of The Matrix is enjoyable until I watch it. And what if it isn't enjoyable? I have then ruined my future viewings of the movie, because I will now have the riffs to think about every time I see it again. The only solution for me is to not listen to the RiffTrax, so that I may have a riff-free experience during my future viewings of the movie I like very much.

If MN had picked Matrix 2 or 3 to riff, then I would be buying it. Those sequels sucked beans, in my opinion.

[Pak-Man]

X-Men is probably on my top 10 list of best movies ever. I laughed hysterically at the Rifftrax, and then went back to enjoying X-Men. Rifftrax isn't (entirely) about making fun of horrible movies. It's about making fun of movies PERIOD. I don't think it's a matter of whether Mr. Nelson likes the movie as much as it is about whether Mr. Nelson thinks riffing the movie would be funny. Riffing was never an act of hate. It was just an act that tended to be targeted toward hateable movies. Every movie riffed since Rifftrax began had its following. There are those wandering the earth who believe Top Gun was the best movie ever. Mike Nelson may ACTUALLY like Roadhouse. Riffing is about making people laugh, not about deposing cinema. :^)

[Heysie]

Next is a reason that I don't have any external support for, it's just my musings.  By riffing big movies like Top Gun and The Matrix, a message is sent, and it says "We are not blind.  Your movie may be flashy but it's no where near perfect.  In fact, it's rather silly". 

I can't resist defending The Matrix a little bit here. I don't mind if people think it's silly, and I'm secure enough in liking it that I'm not worried that riffing will ruin it for me. I do fully agree that the point of riffing movies is to say "We're not blind," etc, but in fact, that is also the point of the Matrix.  When I first saw it, I went begrudgingly, expecting to hate it because I usually hate flashy action flicks. But I went away from the theater walking on air, thinking That wasn't  an action flick, that was a movie about Christianity and Buddhism and perception and reality, and most of all, it was a movie about the huge media-corporate complex that tells us all what to like. The matrix is a symbol for the corporate machine that churns out crap movies and entertainment and then tells us we love them. So the thing that we thumb our nose at by riffing is the very thing that the movie The Matrix is also thumbing its nose at.

Doesn't mean it's not riffable--it might end up being quite funny. When I first saw it my clever boyfriend sort of riffed it; when Neo goes "I'm going to show them something you don't want them to see," my boyfriend goes, "the credits??" I thought that was a classic spontaneous riff and laughed my head off, but nevertheless, the line in the movie is, I believe, meant as an invitation to the audience to not take things blindly and mindlessly--same message that riffing sends, in its own hilarious way.  

[mrbasehart]

The matrix is a symbol for the corporate machine that churns out crap movies and entertainment and then tells us we love them. So the thing that we thumb our nose at by riffing is the very thing that the movie The Matrix is also thumbing its nose at.

If this is true, how much more ironic do Matrix: Reloaded and Matrix: Revolutions become? 

[Hugo]

I think the question of if a film is worthy or not should only apply is if the film would be funny with a rifftrax.  Whether that the movie is good or bad on its own should be mostly irrelevant.

I submit that a good movie is not very funny with a RiffTrax. Many of the riffs in such instances tend to be about peripheral issues unrelated to the movie as such. This is precisely because, in a decent movie, there is less to make fun of than in a really bad one.

Not that I think very highly of Top Gun, but it's a decent action flick, and many riffs dealt with Cruise's Scientology or disdain for psychology. Such jokes risk becoming obsolete, because they aren't really related to the movie itself. They are related solely to the actor's personal life. What if Tom Cruise rejects Scientology and embraces psychology in the future? Such jokes won't make sense anymore, and the RiffTrax will be less funny. This is one problem with using halfway decent movies: you rely too much on jokes that are unrelated to the movie itself. If MN picked a movie that was truly awful, then there would be much more material in the movie itself worthy of riffing, and the end result would be a solid RiffTrax impervious to time. I found, for example, all the jokes about Tom Cruise's smile to be hilarious, because they were directly related to what was going on in the movie. He has a big, shit-eating grin worthy of poking fun at. The gay jokes also had me rolling, because those scenes were very gayish. But I rarely laughed at all the Scientology jokes or the ones about Katie Holmes, because the movie was not about Scientology or Katie Holmes. I chuckled in the beginning, but they soon got old.

[SaucyRossy]

X-Men is probably on my top 10 list of best movies ever.

Ok I am not one to usually critique someones opinion....but TOP 10 BEST MOVIES EVER? Seriously? To me Bryan Singer has made much better movies before X-men. Apt Pupil and ofcourse the Usual Suspects.

[Pak-Man]

My qualifications of what makes a good movie are far different from others. Entertainment value is key. :^)

[SaucyRossy]

I will not judge thy, I mean I HATE the X-men series but thats because I am a comic geek who cant stand the story line and character changes...

[Hugo]

I love good movies. I mean, I'm not a fan of bad movies, that's why I comment on them. Some people think I'm an afficianado of the worst of the worst. But, no, I honestly don't like them. I want movies to be better.

I think there is a strong case to be made for not riffing good movies. If MN wants to see better movies being made, then it is not in his interest to riff on movies that he believes are good, because then his actions are essentially saying to Hollywood: It doesn't matter what you produce; good or bad, I'm going to riff on it anyway.

Consider this analogy: If you want your girlfriend to start wearing nicer dresses, would you make fun of her in a dress that you actually like? No. You praise the nice dress, and criticize the ugly one. Likewise, if you want Hollywood to start making better movies, you don't make fun of the ones you like. This would only discourage film-makers from making better movies, exactly like making fun of the good-looking dresses would discourage your girlfriend from wearing them. 

[mrbasehart]

I think the question of if a film is worthy or not should only apply is if the film would be funny with a rifftrax.  Whether that the movie is good or bad on its own should be mostly irrelevant.

I submit that a good movie is not very funny with a RiffTrax. Many of the riffs in such instances tend to be about peripheral issues unrelated to the movie as such. This is precisely because, in a decent movie, there is less to make fun of than in a really bad one.

I don't think that's true.  The original Planet of the Apes? Good movie, would probably be a good rifftrax.  Halloween made for a good rifftrax, as did X-Men. 

Really, this is all personal preference.  Our opinions differ, but maybe in time when Mike does do some more "good" movies, we'll see how it pans out for him.

[Hank]

Riffing, so far, does not include praise. So, the two things are not the same. If MN roasted movies, that would be a different story.

Though it's not all insulting. Sometimes they're simply observations of the silliness.

Whether he should riff a movie has nothing to do with my evaluation of the movie or someone elses evaluation. It has to do with what MN thinks of the movie. If he thinks The Matrix is mostly bad, then so be it. I'll wait for the next RiffTrax. I fully realize that his evaluation of a movie is not going to be the same as mine all the time.

Then a universal, like "riffing good movies = mistake " is worthless. "Your mileage may vary" or "eye of the beholder" are closer to a true universal (regarding Rifftrax).

I still like X-Men and Halloween. As a matter of fact, I like them quite a bit more now, since I can enjoy them on a whole new level, as well as the original intent.

This is a good point. But "a whole new level" does not necessarily mean that the new level is good or pleasant.

Check out the word that I emphasized.
en‧joy  /ɛnˈdʒɔɪ/ [en-joi]: 1.   to experience with joy; take pleasure in


The problem with analogies is that 99% of the time, they are horribly inaccurate. Movies are not your wife nor the dress she is wearing. You can riff on or insult a movie and can watch it over and over without the movie becoming upset. You can put a dress on your movie, but you can't take it out. You may as well be saying, "Why did you break that vase? How would you like it if I broke your skull?"

[Bob M.]

I firmly believe there are no sacred cows for Riffing. That's a personal thing, though. It wouldn't bother me in the least to see a movie that I consider great get the treatment. As a matter of fact, for me, it would bring me joy; sort of in the same way that Kurt Cobain once said that he thought that Nirvana hadn't truly made it until Weird Al did a parody of one of their songs (and loved it, I might add), I think a Rifftrax could symbolize the same sort of cultural commentary near perfected by Mr. Yankovic (who celebrated a birthday this week by breaking the top 10 with his new record, which is a first for him).

[dlobro1080]

For those of us who have no interest in seeing a good movied get the Rifftrax treatment, I don't think it's about anything being a "sacred cow" or untouchable.  It's about, "Why do it at all?"  I understand that RT is a different beast than MST3K, and that funny is funny, but it really seems less fun to ridicule something good.  Again, wouldn't it be funnier to see a Rifftrax of crap like "Elm Street 2, 4 or 5" rather than a classic -- not just in my mind, but in general film history -- like "Halloween"?  Or "Battlefield: Earth" rather than "The Matrix"?  I just have no desire to see good movies made fun of.  I love Mike, and think he's one of the funniest people around, but I won't be buying "The Matrix" or "Halloween."