Patrick Swayze has Pancreatic Cancer...

[Quicksilver]

I've been tied to a wooden stake in my sleep  Ok you've all called me on drugs in the water having an effect, the population being over limit, girls menstruating earlier, antibiotics and drugs causing immunity weakness and drug resistance, cancer on the rise, and people in church.

Yes, let me type up my thesis right now in response, to more opinions. Obviously I cannot be right about everything and I know that. I see this more as a big picture, not a four fold inevitable cluster fuck that we cannot escape. I think we need to be aware at what is going on around us. This really is far to complicated of issues to debate on a forum.

I'm not going to copy and paste crap, anyone can do that and unless it's a scientific article I'm not showing it nor taking it as counter argument. I once spent about 40 days teaching people on a forum about evolution, not easy, it's not easy to teach much of this. If I had a debate with another ecologist, ok, but that would be like amanda trying to teach us how to make tylenol.....idk.  and then us having a debate on the best way buffer such and such reaction in step 5 of the assay.

I've written and erased my response about 5 times now, ya know what with reactions like I got, I'm not touching any of this, research it on your own, come to your own conclusions. Cancer sucks, disease sucks, Patrick Swayze's cool......peace out. 

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

.....girls menstruating earlier....

That's already been tied to growth hormones given to chickens and cows.

[gammer]

i heard the blind singer from roadhouse died too at some point recently of cancer.  this is sad shit. 

Yeah, Jeff Healy.
He was a pretty good blues performer.

[gbeenie]

.....girls menstruating earlier....

That's already been tied to growth hormones given to chickens and cows.

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Earlier-Puberty-Doubters.htm

[gbeenie]

There was an article about drugs in the water linked to the reputable beacon of public information known as slashdot today (in other words, take with a grain of salt).

At first glance I could have sworn that said "reputable bacon of public information."  Damn you, Bill Corbett.

No... BLESS you, Bill Corbett, for reminding us to take time and focus on what's really important...

[Quicksilver]

you could have used a more recent article, 2001 is a bit old. I think the scary part is A. were debating this and B. that know one really knows what the hell is going on with kids and even more recently what going to happen with the drugs in the water......they just dont know. Did you happen to see/read the rather big story from today that's actually about this very topic?

Bacon bacon bacon
Steak Bacon!

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

you could have used a more recent article, 2001 is a bit old.

Well, it was the only one she could find that agreed with her.

[PlayMSTie]

There was an article about drugs in the water linked to the reputable beacon of public information known as slashdot today (in other words, take with a grain of salt).

At first glance I could have sworn that said "reputable bacon of public information."  Damn you, Bill Corbett.

No... BLESS you, Bill Corbett, for reminding us to take time and focus on what's really important...

Darn it, gbeenie, salivating is not good for my keyboard!!

[gbeenie]

you could have used a more recent article, 2001 is a bit old.

Well, it was the only one she could find that agreed with her.

As opposed to the sources that you cited? Oh, wait. I forgot who I was talking to.

[Quicksilver]

See my point of not citing, is because it would escalate this debate to levels you cannot comprehend. What the hell is the point? I made a post that specifically said I would not cite crap articles and you cited a crap article, what can I tell ya.

[gbeenie]

To be fair, Quicksilver, I was actually responding to Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck, who has apparently never met a half-assed rumor she couldn't internalize and attempt to present as fact.


Oh, and speaking of, here's this from the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/5/2245?hits=10&FIRSTINDEX=0&FULLTEXT=early+menstruation&SEARCHID=1&gca=pediatrics%3B118%2F5%2F2245&

For anyone who doesn't have time to slog through the whole thing, here's the relevant portion (citations for all the statistics stated appear in the full article):

Menarche
From the early 1800s to the mid-1950s, menarche occured at increasingly younger ages in the United States, but there has been no further decline in the last 40 to 50 years. This finding also has been seen in international studies of other developed urban populations. The US National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys have found no significant change in the median age at menarche over the past 30 years except among the non-Hispanic black population, which has a 5.5-month earlier age at menarche than it did 30 years ago. Age at menarche varies internationally and especially in less developed countries; in Haiti, for example, the mean age at menarche is 15.37 years. This knowledge may be especially pertinent for practitioners with a large number of immigrant families in their patient population. Although onset of puberty and menarche typically occur at a later age in females from less well-developed nations, 2 large studies have confirmed that a higher gain in body mass index (BMI) during childhood is related to an earlier onset of puberty. This earlier onset of puberty may result from attainment of a minimal requisite body mass at a younger age. Other possible explanations for the perceived trend in timing and progression of puberty are environmental factors, including socioeconomic conditions, nutrition, and access to preventive health care.

Despite variations worldwide and within the US population, median age at menarche has remained relatively stable, between 12 and 13 years, across well-nourished populations in developed countries. The median age of females when they have their first period or menarche is 12.43 years (see Table 1).  Only 10% of females are menstruating at 11.11 years of age; 90% are menstruating by 13.75 years of age. The median age at which black female adolescents begin to menstruate is earlier (12.06 years of age) than the median age for Hispanic (12.25 years of age) and non-Hispanic white (12.55 years of age) females.3 Although black girls start to mature earlier than non-Hispanic white and Hispanic girls, US females complete secondary sexual development at approximately the same ages.

[bettertomorrowamy]

Can I ask, do you read pediatric journals regularly or did you do a google search to find this information?

[AmandaGal]

you could have used a more recent article, 2001 is a bit old. I think the scary part is A. were debating this and B. that know one really knows what the hell is going on with kids and even more recently what going to happen with the drugs in the water......they just dont know. Did you happen to see/read the rather big story from today that's actually about this very topic?

Bacon bacon bacon
Steak Bacon!

I will say that the "rather big story" was in the media and not in a journal or a reputable scientific publication.  The media tends to exaggerate even reputable scientific studies to the slant of "oh noes, we're all going to die."  It's funny when you actually go and read some of the articles they cite.  Inevitably, they got it wrong.  Generally, they concentrate one aspect and forget the context.  That "rather big story" reeks of that, even though it wasn't based on a journal.

I've also never seen a reputable study that links growth hormone in chickens to early puberty.  Is it possible one exists? Sure.  It's something regularly quoted by the emo kid at my local organic market to get me to buy overpriced fruits, I guess it has to be true.  We give relatively large amounts of growth hormone to kids sometimes, it doesn't give them precocious puberty.  If a small amount can do it, shouldn't a larger amount do it too? If it did cause it, would precocious puberty rates not be much higher?

That emo kid says bacon causes cancer too.  Poor Bill and his bacon fetish.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

you could have used a more recent article, 2001 is a bit old. I think the scary part is A. were debating this and B. that know one really knows what the hell is going on with kids and even more recently what going to happen with the drugs in the water......they just dont know. Did you happen to see/read the rather big story from today that's actually about this very topic?

Bacon bacon bacon
Steak Bacon!

I will say that the "rather big story" was in the media and not in a journal or a reputable scientific publication.  The media tends to exaggerate even reputable scientific studies to the slant of "oh noes, we're all going to die."  It's funny when you actually go and read some of the articles they cite.  Inevitably, they got it wrong.  Generally, they concentrate one aspect and forget the context.  That "rather big story" reeks of that, even though it wasn't based on a journal.

I've also never seen a reputable study that links growth hormone in chickens to early puberty.  Is it possible one exists? Sure.  It's something regularly quoted by the emo kid at my local organic market to get me to buy overpriced fruits, I guess it has to be true.  We give relatively large amounts of growth hormone to kids sometimes, it doesn't give them precocious puberty.  If a small amount can do it, shouldn't a larger amount do it too? If it did cause it, would precocious puberty rates not be much higher?

That emo kid says bacon causes cancer too.  Poor Bill and his bacon fetish.

It's possible that the last info I read on the subject is out of date as well....although it was newer than 2001.

Reminds me of a bit that Lewis Black does.  He asks the audience if milk is good for you.  When he gets a moment of silence he says, "See?  We don't know anymore.  It changes every day."  And the same, he explains, goes about drinking water and how much.  Add to that that most times you don't always know who these Experts actually work for...what side of the issue their paycheck may depend on.

Meanwhile...some people see themselves....

[Quicksilver]

Point taken about todays news, but I was just pointing it out, I thought it was funny, I was sitting here reading the replies and the sotry came on the news, I just thought it was an odd coicidence.

That article was pretty good and exactly what I meant. However seeing it wasnt about the actual topic and was merely using the explanation as a background, I tried out some of the references.
Like this one, that finds there was a correlation between obesity and and onset of puberty.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/110/5/903?ijkey=77ce4a6491f029d5bedf1b8f3448758b43482883&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha


Self cleaning duck, this is a very important battle of the minds here, no joking around.