Negative Rifftrax effect

[Tarantulas]

This is a classic argument that has raged since the early days of MST.

If you look back though, how many movies have you watched for the 1st time via an episode of MST?

People sometimes get their feathers ruffled when the spotlight gets turned on a movie that they have some special attachment to (for me it was the Gamera movies).  I watched the Gamera movies as a kid and loved of them, I thought it was cool that the monster could be a good guy.  Then MST got ahold of them, and I learned to love them in a new way.

[torgosPizza]

Seriously though Torgo I get your point and I am surely not trying to discourage people from sharing their opinions. My favorite movie is probably The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, or Gladiator, or Saving Private Ryan. One of those three. Whats yours Torgo?

Sorry Saucy I thought you were referencing that SciFi show with the critic guy there, whatever his name, when Mike nailed him at the end with the same question I asked you. I'm not at all trying to discourage the sharing of opinions - why else would the board be here? The more opinions the better.

I'm not sure if I have a single favorite, different movies hit me at different times. There are several I can watch over and over again that get me every time, like Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Manos (kidding!) ... it's hard to say I guess.

About the Negative 'Trax Effect... maybe someone who has introduced their friends to, say, Top Gun who possibly has only seen it with Mike and Bill can enlighten to us as to whether or not their friend now thinks Top Gun is horrible and trite, or if they kinda want to watch it sans commentary? What do you guys think? I know people who really liked that movie and probably dont want to watch it with Mike mocking it - but I'll make them anyway!

I think most of the movies Mike is doing are extremely worthy of being given the treatment, although I'm sure now and then he will hit on one that is considered a great modern classic by many.. I dont think this necessarily speaks to the quality of the film being riffed, but more to the fact that "no movie is safe!"

It may not help the movie, or it may help by interesting people enough to go grab it, but I surely think it will interest them more in RiffTrax 

[mrbakasan]

Seriously though Torgo I get your point and I am surely not trying to discourage people from sharing their opinions. My favorite movie is probably The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, or Gladiator, or Saving Private Ryan. One of those three. Whats yours Torgo?

Sorry Saucy I thought you were referencing that SciFi show with the critic guy there, whatever his name, when Mike nailed him at the end with the same question I asked you. I'm not at all trying to discourage the sharing of opinions - why else would the board be here? The more opinions the better.

I'm not sure if I have a single favorite, different movies hit me at different times. There are several I can watch over and over again that get me every time, like Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Manos (kidding!) ... it's hard to say I guess.

About the Negative 'Trax Effect... maybe someone who has introduced their friends to, say, Top Gun who possibly has only seen it with Mike and Bill can enlighten to us as to whether or not their friend now thinks Top Gun is horrible and trite, or if they kinda want to watch it sans commentary? What do you guys think? I know people who really liked that movie and probably dont want to watch it with Mike mocking it - but I'll make them anyway!

I think most of the movies Mike is doing are extremely worthy of being given the treatment, although I'm sure now and then he will hit on one that is considered a great modern classic by many.. I dont think this necessarily speaks to the quality of the film being riffed, but more to the fact that "no movie is safe!"

It may not help the movie, or it may help by interesting people enough to go grab it, but I surely think it will interest them more in RiffTrax 

Well, I've never seen Top Gun.  I've bought the DVD and the rifftrax, but haven't had a chance to watch them yet.  I'll watch Top Gun sans rifftrax before I watch it with and I'll try to honestly let you know what I think.  I seem to be one of the only people who was raised in the 80s who never saw this movie.

[ScottotD]

Rifftrax was the first time I've watched Top Gun, it's just never looked interesting to me.  Over the years I've probably seen most of it on TV or whatever but I've never felt the need to actually watch it.  The rifftrax confirmed a lot of the ideas I had about it (confusing fight scenes, lame script, etc) and the fact I thought the movie was crappy made the rifftrack funnier.

That's basically my issue with buying the 'Halloween' rifftrax, it's one of the first movies I rememeber watching as a kid and being a horror fan I've spent hours defending the genre to friends that I'm finding it hard to justify paying to hear people I like make fun of it.

[Variety of Cells]

There seems to be two situations here.  One is the one I was speaking of when I called the thread "Negative Rifftrax Effect" which is when a person sees a movie with Rifftrax before seeing it solo, and thinks the movie is horrible because of it.  The other issue is "Should good movies be riffed?"  which is something else, and I don't feel it merits the title "negative rifftrax effect."  If your opinion of a movie can be changed by a Rifftrax then maybe your opinion wasn't that great to begin with.  The problem I see is people disliking movies solely because they were riffed, having never seen them before. 

Though the problem is easily solved by awareness.  All that needs to change is an attitude when watching a Rifftrax vs MST3K.  If you don't automatically expect it to be a horrible film, which was pretty much the case for MST3K, and take it upon yourself to decide, then there's really no problem.  If Rifftrax shows you that even big Hollywood films can be bad, then good, join the club.  But don't base that decision on it being a Rifftrax.  In other words, don't judge a dvd by it's photoshopped cover including Mike's head some where on it.  Actually watch the film, and try to take the riffs out when making a judgment. 

[ScottotD]

The issue there is what consitutes a 'good movie'?  Do mean classic movies or what?

[Variety of Cells]

What I was saying is that "should good movies be riffed?" is another topic.  Actually, it's this topic http://rifftrax.com/smf/index.php?topic=508.0

Goodness in terms of movies is in the eye of the beholder.  I think what they mean is movies that are widely accepted as good, but go ahead and check out the topic.

[SaucyRossy]

Seriously though Torgo I get your point and I am surely not trying to discourage people from sharing their opinions. My favorite movie is probably The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, or Gladiator, or Saving Private Ryan. One of those three. Whats yours Torgo?

Sorry Saucy I thought you were referencing that SciFi show with the critic guy there, whatever his name, when Mike nailed him at the end with the same question I asked you. I'm not at all trying to discourage the sharing of opinions - why else would the board be here? The more opinions the better.

Oh no I was refferring to that! That was the beauty of it...

[Shinigami]

This reminds me of when MST3K started on Sci-Fi.  Mike and Mary Jo Perl were on this stupid debate type show that Sci-fi had running.  They were in a discussion with this one geek who rather furiously accused MST3K of giving sci-fi and bad name.

[SaucyRossy]

This reminds me of when MST3K started on Sci-Fi.  Mike and Mary Jo Perl were on this stupid debate type show that Sci-fi had running.  They were in a discussion with this one geek who rather furiously accused MST3K of giving sci-fi and bad name.

Oh reallly?!?! Wow I have never heard of that man that would be kind a relevant to the things I have been saying in this topic. Wish I knew that before! 

[Sharktopus]

There is another way to look at it: Thanks to RiffTrax, my girlfriend actually watched a Star Trek movie. Now she's curious to see more, even without RiffTrax. As a Trekker, I see this as a good thing. Of course, she asked if they're all as silly as Star Trek V, but let's face it, most of 'em are.

[mkiker]

It's just me, but I think colorizing NoTLD takes away from the scare a bit..  It seems less "gritty", and real.

Not that I didn't buy it, and enjoy watching it

I agree.  The black and white kind of reflects the bleakness of the characters in the movie.  I think the colour effect works against Carnival of Souls too.  They're still beautifully done, though.

See, to me it's always been the opposite. Color is real, so how can a movie seem real if it's in BW? It's another layer of fantasy that sort of shields me from the effect of the movie. The same is for Schindler's List, which had awesome visuals but ended up being more a spoof of classic movies than a classic one itself. Last time I checked WW2 Europe wasn't in grey scale.

[Variety of Cells]

It's just me, but I think colorizing NoTLD takes away from the scare a bit..  It seems less "gritty", and real.

Not that I didn't buy it, and enjoy watching it

I agree.  The black and white kind of reflects the bleakness of the characters in the movie.  I think the colour effect works against Carnival of Souls too.  They're still beautifully done, though.

See, to me it's always been the opposite. Color is real, so how can a movie seem real if it's in BW? It's another layer of fantasy that sort of shields me from the effect of the movie. The same is for Schindler's List, which had awesome visuals but ended up being more a spoof of classic movies than a classic one itself. Last time I checked WW2 Europe wasn't in grey scale.

But WW2 was filmed in gray scale because that's what was available at the time.  We perceive it to be more realistic because color hadn't been invented yet. 

And in a way, anything black and white is more real than color.  If something is filmed in black and white, you can't change the image too much.  All you can change is the brightness and contrast.  But if it's filmed in color, there is so much you can twist and warp.  I sat in with a colorist today as he color corrected my 16mm film.  It was amazing all of the things he can change to affect the mood of the scene.  And it's done for every frame of every film you see in theaters.  Nothing is left unaltered. 

There is no realism in film, it's only perceptions.

[mkiker]

I get that WW2 was not filmed in color at the time for various reasons. Why was Schindler's List filmed in BW though. Is it a spoof of old movies? Is it trying to be artsy fartsy? Maybe I just don't get it, but to me taking the color away is like watching Mission Impossible 3 without sound. Why bother. Schindler's List in BW isn't a reflection on the time as much as it is on movies of the time.

[Variety of Cells]

I've never seen Schindler's List, so I can't defend that film, but I can defend the use of Black and White. 

There are some very specific reasons to use black and white, other than being artsy fartsy.  If you want to focus the attention of the audience on the actors and their performances, a good way to do that is with B&W.  Color can be distracting, and if it's not necessary to the story, then why use it?  The decision isn't always "this would look really cool in black and white", it's usually "this wouldn't work in color". 

And if you want me to get real film schooly on your ass, you should be able to watch any movie without the sound and be entertained.  If not, the film is not visual enough.  I don't completely buy that, there are some things that are devoid of any visuals that are either interesting or explanatory, that are still entertaining.  For example, Seinfeld.  Visually, it's just talking heads, boring as hell.  But it's funny.

But don't you think black and white is pretty?  When it's done well, it's just so beautiful.