Indiana Jones IV Title Revealed...

[Tripe]

...but damned if there was anything of substance there.

Yeah... that's why i used words like "rooted" and "loosely based."

-Rude

Two phrases that contradict one another.

But the prequels are nothing of the kind, Lucas was pretty candid about his use of Campbell for the first three but nowhere did I hear mentioned any serious work as an influence on the prequels.

[Rude]

...

Not if you read my original comment in context...
By the way, are you having fun killing this thread by nitpicking all of my posts?

-Rude

[Tripe]

How's it killing the thread ? You just posted again.

And in whatever context it's used "loosely based" and "rooted" are contradictory (and in the context you used it as well). However moving on from that, how was it "rooted" in ancient politics and government?

[the long undertow]

The prequels, however, focused on design, and the story didn't draw from universal myths.  What you end up with is a highly decorated, almost cartoony epic that doesn't rely on 1000s of years of storytelling and history to build itself up.

Not to defend the prequel trilogy... but it was rooted in ancient politics and government, and based loosely on Roman history. How a republic becomes an empire, treachery in the senate, imperialistic war, gladiator games. These films were at least as linked to historical stories as the original trilogy.

-Rude

The history aspect isn't as important as the mythology aspect, though (at least IMO).  The costumes are reminiscent of WWII, there are splashes of samurai and knights, etc. that all nonverbally build up the ideas behind the characters.  The archetypal hero myth isn't prevalent in the prequels like it was in the OT.   And I didn't really mean history in the sense of actual historical events for the films to emulate, but in terms of how the myths continue to exist and influence us.  I understand what you're saying, though.

[Rude]

...

The original trilogy was based more solidly in myth than the new films. However, you tried to say that the prequels weren't relying on storytelling or history in order to "build them up." And they most certainly were written in historical terms:

"All democracies turn into dictatorships—but not by coup. The people give their democracy to a dictator, whether it's Julius Caesar or Napoleon or Adolf Hitler. Ultimately, the general population goes along with the idea. What kinds of things push people and institutions in this direction? That's the issue I've been exploring: how did the Republic turn into the Empire? ... How does a good person go bad, and how does a democracy become a dictatorship?"

That's all i meant to say, really. The prequels were written with a sort of general political history in mind... the story idea has it's roots in a generic sort of political history. However, a few specific events in Star Wars are very loosely based on Rome's transition from republic to empire. I don't think those are contradictory statements at all. Sorry to confuse you, but i'm pretty sure that makes sense to most people.

And ya' know, it really had nothing to do with Indiana Jones anyway. I guess i could stretch it and make the connection, but at this point... whatever. Please continue with the Indiana Jones stuff.

-Rude

[Tripe]

I don't know what that was all about... I must have gotten sand in my vagina or something, and it made me cranky.

Not a prob happens to all of us. But yes I think Lucas has sort of lost the knack of story telling. It's like he was pelted with a few particles of inspiration back in the seventies and eighties but never again since.

[Junkyard]

Or hell, any of those Godzilla movies. 

Oh, it is so on, now. Prepare for the hurt!
Well, first give me your adress, so I can bring the hurt. Hard to hurt over the internet.

But yeah, it sucks partly because it shouldn't have sucked as severly much as it did.

Getting a fishhook to the mouth while fishing is, in my mind, preferable to getting a fishhook to the mouth while eating ice cream.

[Chaos]

See, I think that's just it, Tripe. Lucas hasn't lost the ability to tell stories, he never had it. He had very little to do with the actual writing of the original trilogy, it was already essentially done - he just directed it. The real problem with the prequels is that he did them by himself, and there was nobody there to gently guide his hand away from douchebaggery. Hence, suckdom.

[Tripe]

See, I think that's just it, Tripe. Lucas hasn't lost the ability to tell stories, he never had it. He had very little to do with the actual writing of the original trilogy, it was already essentially done - he just directed it. The real problem with the prequels is that he did them by himself, and there was nobody there to gently guide his hand away from douchebaggery. Hence, suckdom.

I know that, I thought at least you'd get the Discworld reference.

[bettertomorrowamy]

Instead of doing the prequels Lucas should have done three movies based on The Bounty Hunter Trilogy.  I would have liked it if the Star Wars universe was explored using characters we knew little about like Boba Fett.  The books that explore the Star Wars universe are way better than even the original movies in my opinion.

[darthvedder81]

See, I think that's just it, Tripe. Lucas hasn't lost the ability to tell stories, he never had it. He had very little to do with the actual writing of the original trilogy, it was already essentially done - he just directed it. The real problem with the prequels is that he did them by himself, and there was nobody there to gently guide his hand away from douchebaggery. Hence, suckdom.

See this is the kind of attitude I don't like. I can accept that you genuinely didn't like the prequels but why can't you accept that others genuinely do? For any Star Wars fan, there's a lot to enjoy in all 3 of them. I just wish there was more civility here and we could move away from words like "douchebaggery" and "suckdom." There's lots of directors and filmmakers who are well loved and respected by many that I don't personally care for or find extremely overrated (Scorcese, Peter Jackson, Tarantino) but I do recognize their talents and I certainly don't feel the need to attack them with the kind of vitriol normally leveled towards Nazi war criminals.

You are just dead wrong in your assessment of Lucas not "actually writing" the original trilogy. He wrote "A New Hope" himself, co-wrote "Jedi" and even though he didn't get a credit for the "Empire" script he was heavily involved in it's overall story. (He also co-wrote "American Graffiti" which is one of the most interesting scripts I've ever read). Look, I'm not saying he's a writer on the level of David Mamet, and it's certainly not his strong point (he's admit as much) but give GL some credit where it's due. For a guy who's strong point is editing and cinematography he's created some pretty memorable characters, scenes and yes even dialogue.

There would be no such thing as movie geekdom if it weren't for Star Wars and Indy.

[darthvedder81]

Instead of doing the prequels Lucas should have done three movies based on The Bounty Hunter Trilogy.  I would have liked it if the Star Wars universe was explored using characters we knew little about like Boba Fett.  The books that explore the Star Wars universe are way better than even the original movies in my opinion.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Other than the Zahn trilogy the EU is a trail of literary tears. Nothing has ruined the Star Wars universe more than the dearth of lame, overly "sci-fi" influenced EU novels. GL is gracious enough to let others to continue play in his universe. If I were him I would have put the kibash on the whole thing after "Shadows of the Empire".

[bettertomorrowamy]

The crap that takes place after Return of the Jedi in the books is boring, but experiencing the Star Wars universe from different character angles at the same time as the original movies took place would be very interesting to me.

[Chaos]

See, I think that's just it, Tripe. Lucas hasn't lost the ability to tell stories, he never had it. He had very little to do with the actual writing of the original trilogy, it was already essentially done - he just directed it. The real problem with the prequels is that he did them by himself, and there was nobody there to gently guide his hand away from douchebaggery. Hence, suckdom.

I know that, I thought at least you'd get the Discworld reference.

Oh, I got it. I laughed (poor Leonard). I just figured that, reference aside, you were being serious with the underlying message. Maybe Lucas sleeps with a metal anti-idea-particle helmet on, to prevent any more unsightly inspiration from striking.

Okay. Well now I know that you're either a) full of shit or b) have no taste at all. In either case, I feel comfortable simply dismissing your opinions out of hand and moving on.

Don't you kind of HAVE to enjoy bad movies on some level to be an MST3K / RiffTrax fan? If you don't enjoy the occasional crappy flick, you don't have much business deriving a large portion of your entertainment from watching them, commentary or no...

[bettertomorrowamy]

I don't think you're full of shit.  If that helps.  I think you're full of porridge and honey and all things delightful.