Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilertastic Thread

[Quantum Vagina]

It doesn't matter how they work, what matters is that I as a member of the audience can suspend my disbelief because as a fan of science fantasy, that's kind of my job.

Feel like I need to respond to this one separately.

That's somewhat of a unique perspective on being an audience member, we are the ones paying, so we should be considered the boss, not the employee. 

I'd say it's the film makers job to not have plot holes that crash your suspension of disbelief.  Doesn't matter what the type of movie is, there are levels of disbelief in all movies that have to be overcome.  In a drama you can't have a character do something too far away from what is expected based on what they have done before, in an action movie you shouldn't have infinite bullets.  That's what this was, the moment they said the weapon drains the star until it goes out I thought "how do they reload, they already fired it once?", that took me out of the movie for a moment and flagged that as something to think about later.  And after the movie is a bad time to analyze specific things like that.

Also, it is possible to not like a few moments in a movie and still like it overall.  I will be getting this movie on Blu-Ray when it comes out, I'm hoping this is the first JJ movie that I'll be able to watch multiple times.

It's no different than going to a play and seeing the curtain rustle. It takes you out of the moment. I actually remember being confused about the whole reloading thing, too... the only answer I had was maybe they were in a binary star system? But that's still stupid, because they only increased their ammo capacity by one. Either the First Order is a literal analog for US Government spending, or they're stupid as hell for constructing a weapon they could fire ONCE.

[RoninFox]

I kind of read the situation as the planet was absorbing all the energy that the sun was radiating out (including the light which is why the sun appeared to go out) but not the sun's mass or internal energy, so once the weapon had stored the energy and fired, the sun would re-appear as its energy was no longer being diverted. If I'm right, its possible that this could have been explained better, but to me JJ's biggest flaw is sacrificing logic for visual storytelling.

It's the same flaw that led to the Resistance being able to see the planets of the Republic explode in the sky despite most likely not being in the same solar system, so the light should have been tiny and traveling for thousands of years before being visible. I get that the weapon fires at hyperspace speeds, but not the explosions. This wasn't important to him because he wants to tell the story with the visual of the Resistance watching, not with someone reporting what happened by reading a monitor. It was the same reason he put Spock on a nameless and impossible planet/moon in Star Trek to watch Vulcan be destroyed in the sky.

That's really the biggest thing that bothered me in the movie, and I honestly didn't even think about it until an hour or two after leaving the theater. Didn't ruin anything for me, I think of it like I think of the "parsecs" mistake.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

It's the same flaw that led to the Resistance being able to see the planets of the Republic explode in the sky despite most likely not being in the same solar system, so the light should have been tiny and traveling for thousands of years before being visible. I get that the weapon fires at hyperspace speeds, but not the explosions.

I thought those planets were in the same system, but the planet/moon BB-8 was on was not targeted because they wanted the map and they were sending troops there to get it.   Best not to think about how they could see the energy beams when they should be in hyperspace traveling faster than light.

Your thought about only sucking up the radiated energy is interesting, some kind of energy absorbing field put around the star, and it just so happens that it takes the exact amount of time to charge as the distance in light minutes between the star and the planet.  Once the field is shut down there would be a few minutes of darkness while the light travels from the star to the planet.

OK, I could go with that, considering what the rebels know about the weapon came from someone on the sanitation squad it could be believable he didn't have all his facts correct. 

[RoninFox]

It's the same flaw that led to the Resistance being able to see the planets of the Republic explode in the sky despite most likely not being in the same solar system, so the light should have been tiny and traveling for thousands of years before being visible. I get that the weapon fires at hyperspace speeds, but not the explosions.

I thought those planets were in the same system, but the planet/moon BB-8 was on was not targeted because they wanted the map and they were sending troops there to get it.   Best not to think about how they could see the energy beams when they should be in hyperspace traveling faster than light.

If those planets were in the same system, that would make more sense and I could get behind that, but I missed it if they mentioned that. I got the impression that they didn't know where the Resistance base was until they tracked the ships leaving the battle on Takadona. It wouldn't seem right for the Resistance to be so close since they're apparently separate from the Republic, acting independently and without the Republic's support and blessing.

[RoninFox]

I may be mixing up the order of scenes in my head too, I'm looking through a synopsis to help make my points. Might need to re-watch again soon to see if it makes more sense.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

 It was confusing why they fired on that first system, they were talking about making a statement but also about the rebel base and wasn't there something about getting rid of part of the republic as well?  I assumed they fired on that system because they knew BB-8 was taken there and they assumed it was filled with support for the rebels.

The whole political structure is very confusing, did the fall of the emperor result in 3 factions all wanting control?  The rebels, the old republic, and what was left of the military became the first order? 

A tiny bit more explanation of that would have been nice, not too much, that's the type of thing that you put in a novel, try to put too much of it in the movie and you end up with stuff like the endless trade negotiations from the prequels.

[Kete]

*Stumbles into this thread with his mod hat on and a hand over his eyes*

Um, I accidentally clicked in here and it looks like there's something that needs light moderation, and I don't want to read anything to get details because I don't want THOSE details, so EVERYONE:

Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

Don't make me have to risk being spoilered to get more details!

LIKE.  I found this funny

[RoninFox]

It was confusing why they fired on that first system, they were talking about making a statement but also about the rebel base and wasn't there something about getting rid of part of the republic as well?  I assumed they fired on that system because they knew BB-8 was taken there and they assumed it was filled with support for the rebels.

The whole political structure is very confusing, did the fall of the emperor result in 3 factions all wanting control?  The rebels, the old republic, and what was left of the military became the first order? 

A tiny bit more explanation of that would have been nice, not too much, that's the type of thing that you put in a novel, try to put too much of it in the movie and you end up with stuff like the endless trade negotiations from the prequels.

There are two major powers, The First Order and The Republic. The attack that destroyed multiple planets was mentioned in a scene as "destroying the illegitimate government of the Republic."

The Resistance is a separate and tiny group that was fighting the First Order despite the wishes of the Republic, which had a peace treaty in place. In Star Trek terms, they're the Maquis.

The detail about the treaty came from reading about the novelization of the movie today, but the rest I was able to catch from the movie, though it could have been made clearer.

[soguru]

Soguru, you need to dial it back. Your posts are too emotional and defensive.

I know.

[MartyS (Gromit)]

I thought they embargoed the novel for a few weeks more so wasn't looking for it.  Downloading it to my Kindle now.  And it's written by my favorite author.  Cool, I'll need something to read this weekend while stuck in a hotel room.

[SJP]

There are two major powers, The First Order and The Republic. The attack that destroyed multiple planets was mentioned in a scene as "destroying the illegitimate government of the Republic."

The Resistance is a separate and tiny group that was fighting the First Order despite the wishes of the Republic, which had a peace treaty in place.

The detail about the treaty came from reading about the novelization of the movie today, but the rest I was able to catch from the movie, though it could have been made clearer.

I was wondering that myself.  I had missed a little bit of the story there and assumed the Resistance was acting on behalf of the Republic because the Republic wouldn't (or couldn't) fight back.  I just didn't know the WHY of it.

And the science of the Starkiller itself...I didn't buy the "star-sucking" aspect as something that was either 1. reasonable, or 2. efficient, but that's one that I rolled with, because the visual effect was impressive.  But it does lead to one of the things I didn't care for in this entry...I think I mentioned it before, but when the Starkiller goes down, it just sort of...implodes.  It doesn't make much of a fuss about itself.  Yes, it becomes a star all of its own, but for something twelve times as destructive (and about 40 times the size) of the Death Star...couldn't there even have been a big musical sting for it?  I mean, where's the kaboom?  Where's the galaxy-shattering kaboom?

Another thing that was confusing at first was it took me awhile to realize the ice world was supposed to be the outside of the Starkiller, that it was just so massive that it had its own atmosphere.  I thought it was a nice touch, but at the same time it also had a fully grown forest on it.  Just how long did it take to build this thing, and when did it start?  And who brought all the seeds to start the Metro Park?

[soguru]

I'd say it's the film makers job to not have plot holes that crash your suspension of disbelief.  Doesn't matter what the type of movie is, there are levels of disbelief in all movies that have to be overcome.
Also, it is possible to not like a few moments in a movie and still like it overall.  I will be getting this movie on Blu-Ray when it comes out, I'm hoping this is the first JJ movie that I'll be able to watch multiple times.

It depends a lot on the overall quality of the film. More than that though, I think the idea of using a star to powering something is a convention that has been used in science fiction before. I seem to remember the idea of a Dyson Sphere or something? I don't need a lot of particulars, scientific fact is completely bent to the will of the force in Star Wars. I can accept certain leaps that fall far beyond the realm of logic, so why can't other people?

[MartyS (Gromit)]

Another thing that was confusing at first was it took me awhile to realize the ice world was supposed to be the outside of the Starkiller, that it was just so massive that it had its own atmosphere.  I thought it was a nice touch, but at the same time it also had a fully grown forest on it.  Just how long did it take to build this thing, and when did it start?  And who brought all the seeds to start the Metro Park?

They called it a planet a few times.  So we have to assume they built the weapon into an existing planet, I don't see them bringing in soil and planting trees on their mega-weapon.  The external views they always showed were kind of strange, so you couldn't really tell it was a planet, like there was a permanent haze around it?  Maybe that was the defensive shield?

[MartyS (Gromit)]

I can accept certain leaps that fall far beyond the realm of logic, so why can't other people?

That's pretty simple, because everyone is different, with different thresholds of what it takes to shake their suspension of disbelief. 

[Kete]

Ha!  Not only was Daniel Craig in it, but check out his name: