Ghostbusters the reboot (2015)

[Edward J Grug III]

So you believe that when a company changes the design on something all the people that complain about the new version are acting from a sense of entitlement?

They only 'design change' that this guy actually knows about is that it stars women at this point.

I DON'T think you can put a blanket statement that all people that complain about anything are acting from entitlement, and that's partially why your analogy makes no sense.

[The Lurker]

https://twitter.com/ashleylynch/status/736428356036665344

[Edward J Grug III]

This is more akin to people complaining that an iPhone coming out in a few months is gonna have a new GX19-RAM chip (Totally made up chip for the point of analogy). They don't know how the new chip is gonna function, but they know that their old chip was just fine, and they don't like the looks of it!

Maybe an OS change would be more like it, something that changes the look and "feel" of the phone.

But then again maybe not, I'm not sure there are people getting fanatical about an OS the same way they do over a certain car, movie, toy, etc...    But maybe there are, Apple does have some rabid fans. 

And the new version doesn't have to be bad, just different from the version people are fanatical about, plenty of people will buy a new redesign of a car except the people that think it has changed too much.  All it would take are pictures of the new design to turn off huge fans of the old one.  If that's entitlement it's a pretty broad use of it, I'm sure there are some people that say that they have spent so much in the past that the company owes them something, but not the majority of people that are not happy about something that has been changed.  I've spent a lot of money buying Star Trek stuff over the last 40 years, I don't think Paramount owes me anything, I don't like what they have done with the new timeline so will simply not watch those movies.  Only a minority of people think the same way I do so the box office has kept those movies going, I hope someday more will be done in the original timeline but I don't feel I'm entitled to it.

The word entitlement just keeps getting more and more abused, but that's something for a different thread, I'm done here.

You've done nothing to demonstrate this isn't entitlement except to try to draw a flawed analogy. The article argues that it is pretty well, in my opinion.

[Edward J Grug III]

https://twitter.com/ashleylynch/status/736428356036665344

OMG, their response to being called out on it: https://twitter.com/ashleylynch/status/736448493963911172

[The Lurker]

Well Dan Aykroyd seems to have enjoyed it.
https://twitter.com/dan_aykroyd/status/737083096252702721

[Edward J Grug III]

Ugh, the reactions to that tweet.

"I heard you were going to get sued if you said anything bad about it"

[Edward J Grug III]

More on fan entitlement, springing from the previous article: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/30/fandom-is-broken

[Variety of Cells]

More on fan entitlement, springing from the previous article: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/30/fandom-is-broken

His best point is the treatment of art as a consumer product by the fans.  That is what gives a lot of people the entitlement to demand changes.  Those funding the production of art have been treating it as a product for a long long time, but it hasn't been until recently that the fans treat it that was as well.

Which is a shame, because it has slowed to a crawl the growth of video games as an art form and relegated them to entertainment. How can you expect outsiders to treat video games as art when the people who purchase and enjoy video games treat them like a product?

[Pak-Man]

He also tied it to the Mass Effect outrage, which wasn't a connection I made and has always rubbed me the wrong way as a writer. When you create a story, that's YOUR creative vision. Creative vision should never be crowdsourced. Like- What if angry fans had railed against the ending to 2001 and forced Kubrick change it to something less confusing?

Used to be, if you didn't like how a story went, you quietly wrote some bad fan fiction about it, shared it with like-minded friends, and left the creator alone. Saying to a creator, "I know what's best for your creation more than you do" is supremely arrogant and probably wrong.

[Variety of Cells]

He also tied it to the Mass Effect outrage, which wasn't a connection I made and has always rubbed me the wrong way as a writer. When you create a story, that's YOUR creative vision. Creative vision should never be crowdsourced. Like- What if angry fans had railed against the ending to 2001 and forced Kubrick change it to something less confusing?

Used to be, if you didn't like how a story went, you quietly wrote some bad fan fiction about it, shared it with like-minded friends, and left the creator alone. Saying to a creator, "I know what's best for your creation more than you do" is supremely arrogant and probably wrong.

This is a little bit of a tangent that's only loosely tied, but my wife is a screenwriter and she keeps getting told that 'interactive media' is the way of the future.  Choose-your-own-adventure esque videos where the viewer can influence the path of the story.  This makes my wife mad to no end.  She started writing because she enjoys crafting stories.  But now instead of writing the best narrative thread she can imagine, she has to think of a bunch of mediocre options to appease a viewer that probably won't make the most interesting choices as far as a narrative goes. 

She hasn't written any such thing yet, but is constantly reminded that's where the future is heading.  And I think it stems from this sense of entitlement, that the consumer should be able to shape the story how they want, instead of just experiencing a piece of art.  It's a dangerous expectation that is going to lead to a lot of mediocre experiences. 

Not to say that form of content is always bad, it's been done in video games to various success for a while now.  But that notion of 'the consumer is always right' is starting to seep into areas that perhaps it shouldn't. 

[Imrahil]

Used to be, if you didn't like how a story went, you quietly wrote some bad fan fiction about it, shared it with like-minded friends, and left the creator alone. Saying to a creator, "I know what's best for your creation more than you do" is supremely arrogant and probably wrong.

And yet this is what those reviews of the prequels did--and everyone loved them.  It's essentially what JJ Abrams did.

[Edward J Grug III]

Used to be, if you didn't like how a story went, you quietly wrote some bad fan fiction about it, shared it with like-minded friends, and left the creator alone. Saying to a creator, "I know what's best for your creation more than you do" is supremely arrogant and probably wrong.

And yet this is what those reviews of the prequels did--and everyone loved them.  It's essentially what JJ Abrams did.

What do you mean?

[ScottotD]

Something whiny probably including a reference to lens flares

[Edward J Grug III]

I *think* I understand the JJ part as meaning JJ he said "I know what's best for your creation more than you do" but that doesn't make sense, because he was the artist in this instance.

Assuming I got that part right, I don't know what the first part meant. Unless the post started sarcastic and turned sincere?

Like the reviews of the prequel were negative and people didn't like the films?

But no one here is saying creations are immune to criticism, just that you can't have criticism without having seen the product, nor should you campaign for it to be changed after the fact.

[ScottotD]

The "so I'm not allowed not to like something?!" response is so weird, yes you're allowed to not like whatever you like but you're not entitled to expect to like everything