Grindhouse

[SmilinJackRoss]

Can you accept the fact that somebody in the world could, at the same time, understand what Tarantino was going for, AND think he failed miserably?

Yes, I can.  I didn't say you were wrong, I just stated why I liked it.  To say he failed is innacurate though:

fail·ure  (fal'yer)
n.
  The condition or fact of not achieving the desired end.

I would argue that Tarantino acheived exactly what he was going for.  It's OK that you didn't specifically like what he was going for, but to call the film a failure is inaccurate.

I am completely aware of what the 70s exploitation films were about. I have watched them. I have enjoyed a (very small) number of them. I have the "baseline knowledge" you speak of. I still feel, personally, that Death Proof was a steaming pile of moldy crap.

I wish people would stop saying "you have to understand X," as though implying that the ONLY way you could not like something is if you were too stupid or uninformed to "get" it.

I didn't mean to imply that.  I just wanted to be clear that it is dialogue-heavy and slowly paced on purpose.  But for me (and I emphasize, for me) this didn't make it boring.  I found the dialogue, acting, and script to be top notch, considering their context.

[Ortega]

hey...you didn't like it.  i did.  i think the whole concept wasn't for everybody.  I've known some people who hated both, some people who loved death proof, and some people who loved Planet Terror.  Different strokes, ya know?

   i thought DP did drag a bit during the first half, but i thought it kicked in when the Stuntman Mike character showed up, just at the right moment.
and i liked the difference between the two sets of girls. One were stuck-up, self absorbed bitches, the other were't near as annoying. and i liked how the tables turned on him at the end.  one of my friends, who likes QT films, didn't like it, saying it didn't' feel like a QT film.

  I liked the campy, cheesy action movie feel of Planet Terror.  Just a brain-switch-off movie. 

and i can totally see the reasons i like it, are probably the same exact reason you didn't like it.

to each, his own.

[Chaos]

Actually, I DID like Planet Terror (relatively speaking, anyway - as is probably obvious by now, I'm pretty disapproving of movies in general), for the exact same reasons you did, as a switched-off, enjoy without thinking about it kind of way. The only thing that detracted from my enjoyment of it was the excessive levels of gore. Some gore is fine, and even grotesque zombie gore is okay in some capacity, but some of it just went too far.

Examples:
slightly pus-y, pulsing face: okay. face melting: not okay.
wooden lance through Tarantino's eye: okay. Tarantino's genitals melting off his body in full, graphic detail: not okay.

Gore is an interesting phenomena like that. It's a very delicate balance. Look at the Cube series... Cube? No problem at all. It's graphic, but not excessive. Hypercube? The small amount of gore they DID show in this one looked cheap, crappy, and actually made the movie less enjoyable (I'm speaking of the spinning razors that chop the guy up scene in particular). It would have been better to either try harder with the effect, or just leave it to the imagination. Cube Zero? Too gorey. The melt-y guy turned my stomach, and the rest of the movie  was hard to watch because I kept anticipating something even worse (although in that particular case, the melt-y guy WAS the worst).


Oh... and going back to Planet Terror... kid shooting himself in the face? NEVER okay. That kind of stuff really strikes unnecessary and painful chords in people with children. All the other gore and violence aside, I would never, EVER be able to watch this movie with my wife, because of that one specific scene.

[mrbasehart]

Death Proof is an interesting film, more so than Planet Terror, I believe.  As I said in my mini-review elsewhere, I thought Death Proof was overlong and talky, which I still think it is, but I still think it's a good example of the films in that particular genre.  It has an odd structure too, the first half feels like a perfect copy of a 70s exploitation film and I was actually surprised to see modern technology being featured, as it seemed slightly out of place.  The second half deos away with all of the scratches and printing errors and feels totally modern.  It's like Tarantino has sequelized or remade Death Proof in his own movie.

I only saw the extended edition, but I think the best scene in Death Proof is one of the ones Tarantino cut out of the Grindhouse version - it's the scene where Kurt Russell convinces Vanessa Ferlito's character to give him a lap dance.  Russell is excellent in that scene, and it gives a lot more characterization to Stuntman Mike, and makes him genuinely threatening.

[Big Blonde]

Oh... and going back to Planet Terror... kid shooting himself in the face? NEVER okay. That kind of stuff really strikes unnecessary and painful chords in people with children. All the other gore and violence aside, I would never, EVER be able to watch this movie with my wife, because of that one specific scene.

It's my understanding, and I could be wrong about this, but all the exploitation movies that Planet Terror is based off of had really terrible things happen in them that are similar to the shooting scene or maybe even worse (like gratuitous rape). If you've seen the movies that Planet Terror pays homage too, wouldn't you kind of expect to see terrible scenes in PT? Personally, I think that the context that the hold shooting took place in was not as painful as it could have been. The fact that the whole movie was all tongue in check and in no way serious didn't make the kid's death seem as dramatic as it could have been if the movie was serious. But that's just my opinion, and I also don't have kids, so that's probably why I feel that way.

[Ortega]

Oh... and going back to Planet Terror... kid shooting himself in the face? NEVER okay. That kind of stuff really strikes unnecessary and painful chords in people with children. All the other gore and violence aside, I would never, EVER be able to watch this movie with my wife, because of that one specific scene.

  I watched the movie witht the Rodregueiz commentary track, and he explained that the reason he put it in there, was because those types of movies would do things you just DON'T do in movies.  And near the end, with the surviviors on the road running down zombies, the cook's dog gets killed.  He joked around that there are two cardinal rules when making a movie, never kill a kid, and never kill a dog.  He was making a point that those types of directors would put crap like that in just for shock value.  And the funny thing is, the kid is actually Rodregeuz's son.



Also, Chaos...what did you think of the Machete trailer?  just curious...

[MrTorso]

I only saw the extended edition, but I think the best scene in Death Proof is one of the ones Tarantino cut out of the Grindhouse version - it's the scene where Kurt Russell convinces Vanessa Ferlito's character to give him a lap dance.  Russell is excellent in that scene, and it gives a lot more characterization to Stuntman Mike, and makes him genuinely threatening.

That scene was in the double feature version. The actual dance was a missing reel.

[Chaos]

Re: the two people who asked me about the child face shooting: I'm not saying I don't understand why it was there (I do). It makes perfect sense for it to have happened within the confines of the type of movie this was emulating (and even would have made sense to SHOW it, considering what Rodriguez was going for with the rest of the film - thank god he didn't go that route)... I'm just saying that the fact that it was there was an immediate, absolute, unforgivable transgression for people who have children and also happen to be sensitive to visual / audio stimulation regarding injury / torture / hardship of children (like my wife).

To put it into perspective, she got really teared up watching FIREWALL, during the scene where they throw the dog out of the van, specifically because of the cry of pain and terror the little boy shouts out through his gag as they are kicking the dog out. That kind of stuff PHYSICALLY wounds her. Ask a few women you know who have children - I assure you, one of them will be able to describe the sensation to you better than I can.

Re: MACHETE, I thought it was pretty funny. Especially the fact that the voiceover guy AND the music both sounded exactly like what was used in the Kentucky Fried Movie fake trailers. That created an extra little "squee" feeling for me. The chaingun mounted on the motorcycle was particularly good - very absurdly funny.

[Ortega]

Re: the two people who asked me about the child face shooting: I'm not saying I don't understand why it was there (I do). It makes perfect sense for it to have happened within the confines of the type of movie this was emulating (and even would have made sense to SHOW it, considering what Rodriguez was going for with the rest of the film - thank god he didn't go that route)... I'm just saying that the fact that it was there was an immediate, absolute, unforgivable transgression for people who have children and also happen to be sensitive to visual / audio stimulation regarding injury / torture / hardship of children (like my wife).

To put it into perspective, she got really teared up watching FIREWALL, during the scene where they throw the dog out of the van, specifically because of the cry of pain and terror the little boy shouts out through his gag as they are kicking the dog out. That kind of stuff PHYSICALLY wounds her. Ask a few women you know who have children - I assure you, one of them will be able to describe the sensation to you better than I can.

yeah..i could see that being  very jarring(i even remember being shocked at it when i saw it it the theater).  I saw different reactions to both.  Two of my friends have children, and one of them was, like you said, really offended, and one it didn't phase at all, and actually laughed, and she has two children of her own.

[OTC316]

On the bonus disc, Rodriguez explains how he shot several scenes where the kid makes it out of the movie alive. In the original screenplay, it was written both ways, but in the end, they decided to kill the kid off. In fact, if you get all the way through the end credits, you will see a shot of the kid playing on the beach with his turtle and scorpion.

[pyro]

When thinking about it, I don't even think his son needed to be involved in any of the suicide shots.....  But he said somewhere that he also shot the alternate script too and that his son has only seen the one where he survived

[bettertomorrowamy]

Rodriguez's commentary track really helped me enjoy Planet Terror a lot more.  I really don't see what the big deal about having the kid shoot himself is anyway.  Aren't we supposed to send the message to kids that playing with guns is dangerous?  This brings that message straight home.  Kids; if you touch a gun you will shoot yourself in the face.  It's like one of those shitty PSA's on t.v.  Plus they don't even show the kids face blown off or anything.

[pyro]

I totally forgot till reading your post about that anti-marijuana commercial where the kid says "Dude, I'm so high" and then shoots himself in the face.... and they were broadcasting that one in high schools daily via Channel 1 News 

[Quicksilver]

"They just fucked with the wrong Mexican"  favorite line..........ever

Come on, she said dont blow your face off and he did, I say evolution.  One more weakling gone from the gene pool. Not too mention he would have been eaten anyway, maybe a bullet was showing compassion.

[Minnesota]

Finally saw Planet Terror. Great film. Also, great director's commentary as usual. Now that I've seen both Grindhouse movies I can finally go through this 26 page thread