Twilight 2: New Moon

[LucasM]

I think I'm a reasonably sensible person, and I've read all 4 Twilight books and enjoyed them thoroughly for what they were: quick, easy reads that did not require much thought but were fun while they lasted.  The first movie is downright horrible, thanks especially to two lead actors who have zero chemistry and tremendous lolls in dialogue that I guess were supposed to create dramatic tension or something....I don't know.  The Rifftrax of Twilight are one of my favorite Riffs, (especially the part where Bill sings along with the Edward playing the piano.)  The second movie, however, is reasonably better.  I'm not saying it's a cinematic masterpiece, but it tries to have some action, faster plot development, and more focus on the Jacob character (the only character in the entire series who is genuinely likable and somewhat developed).

I do worry what girls in the tween age range are gleaning from their obsession with Twilight.  It's no different, though, than what I grew up with which were animated Disney princesses.  Most are the same as the Bella character (if not significantly more cheerful): hollow headed empty vessels that must have an equally personality devoid male to complete their lives.  However, while growing up and watching these characters and pretending to be them etc., I did not grow up to think that if a man kidnapped me and locked me in a tower that it must be his psycho way of saying he loved me.  Hopefully these girls will be able to understand that Edward and Bella's relationship is simply a work of fiction.  

The saddest part is that the whole Twilight thing exists solely into capturing a ripe gender and age group to turn them into compulsive consumers who will buy any crap with a Twilight logo on it.  The other day I was in Border's Books and I saw Twilight Brand Packaging Tape.  It was like ten bucks.  Who the fuck needs Twilight Brand Packaging Tape?  It has truly gotten out of hand.  But it joins Hannah Montana, High School Musical, the Jonas Brothers, etc. in a marketing machine to take little girl's and parent's money straight out of their pockets.  THAT'S the saddest part to me is that they are being led straight into a lifestyle of blind consumption.  

I missed that post.  And I agree.  I have a very intelligent friend (age 28) and she's read all four books.  She enjoyed them, and understands that they are a fictional love story, and not meant to represent the 'ideal' for relationships.  But she enjoyed them.  Doesn't bother me any.  And, if my head injuries didn't make reading SUCH a task, I might have given them a try, just to see the actual source material, since generally the books are immeasurably better than any film/TV show made from them.

[And I agree: the Twilight RiffTrax is one of my three favorites.]

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

And, if my head injuries didn't make reading SUCH a task, I might have given them a try....

Do you do any better with audio books?

The only trouble with this whole "They're fun to read" thing is...they're just so badly written.  That comment that Bill made in the Rifftrax about "I'm glad they kept all the "okay"'s in"....he wasn't exaggerating.  And the exposition isn't much better.

There are lots of "mind candy" books out there (from Trek novels to the Alien series to even a Hellboy novel called, "On Earth As It Is In Hell") that the author will do a good job...either to prove to the publisher that they're that good or just out of a sense of pride...

[LucasM]

And, if my head injuries didn't make reading SUCH a task, I might have given them a try....

Do you do any better with audio books?

That's actually a LOT worse.  Without the visual in front of me I can't maintain attention on anything more than a few seconds... by mid-sentence listening to a 'monologue' my brain is already off somewhere.  So with an audio book, that'd mean I'd have to try to rewind just a little to catch where I lost the sentence every few seconds (at which point I would have forgotten the context).  [A 15 minute phone call generally takes me two DAYS to recover from, for that very reason: the mental energy it takes to force myself to stay focused.  So - obviously - I don't talk on the phone much, and never pick up when someone calls me (I let the machine get it).  I now average about one personal phone call every month or two (at most: I try to avoid that much if possible).]

The only trouble with this whole "They're fun to read" thing is...they're just so badly written.  That comment that Bill made in the Rifftrax about "I'm glad they kept all the "okay"'s in"....he wasn't exaggerating.  And the exposition isn't much better.

There are lots of "mind candy" books out there (from Trek novels to the Alien series to even a Hellboy novel called, "On Earth As It Is In Hell") that the author will do a good job...either to prove to the publisher that they're that good or just out of a sense of pride...

The books I've been working my way through (at a rate of roughly 15 pages every week or two) is the Wild Cards series.  [They're like the TV series Heroes, but with good plots, and no discernable plot holes.]  I'm up to the 12th one... with each book roughly 400 pages, that's a Big Deal for me!  However, after one of my favorite main characters was left 'elsewhere' (ambiguated for those having not read the series that might start), the level of 'fun' decreased a tad, but that may have also been because one of the next follow-up books was about a roughly 3-day war, and bored me to tears, as I cared about almost none of the focal characters in it.  That one took a very long time to finish, as the expenditure of energy needed to read something 'not terribly enjoyable' seldom seemed worthwhile to me.  But since the series is basically an ongoing history (and because 'incomplete' things now disturb me terribly since the third head injury), I didn't feel comfortable skipping it, particularly once I'd gotten far enough in it to realize that there weren't any characters I gave a $#!† about in it.

Sounds like the Twilight writing would be just as troubling to follow as something I didn't like, even if I did find the ideas 'fun'.  Too bad the author didn't collaborate with someone who knew how to put words together.  Her saying, "this is what I'd like here," and then the other person actually doing it.  At least then detractors could only complain about the content. 

[Tripe]

I have a very intelligent friend (age 28) and she's read all four books.

Yeah I have a friend who is very clever and cool and still likes them.

If I didn't find her so very cute and cool and generally awesome* I'd rib her a lot more about it but she also knows they're utter crap.

*I tend to lose some of my eloquence when I think about her, she is that cool.

[Plastic Self-Cleaning Duck]

Sounds like the Twilight writing would be just as troubling to follow as something I didn't like, even if I did find the ideas 'fun'.  Too bad the author didn't collaborate with someone who knew how to put words together.  Her saying, "this is what I'd like here," and then the other person actually doing it.  At least then detractors could only complain about the content. 

I'm amazed the editors let this book be published like this....   Unless they worked their fingers to the bone with her and it still came out like this?  That it was even worse to begin with?   

[Tyrant]

Sounds like the Twilight writing would be just as troubling to follow as something I didn't like, even if I did find the ideas 'fun'.  Too bad the author didn't collaborate with someone who knew how to put words together.  Her saying, "this is what I'd like here," and then the other person actually doing it.  At least then detractors could only complain about the content. 

I'm amazed the editors let this book be published like this....   Unless they worked their fingers to the bone with her and it still came out like this?  That it was even worse to begin with?   

I think they just saw a potential money-making monstrosity and went with it. Given the target audience, they probably figured they could get away with a lot more than usual. But yeah. I think real writers probably really, really, really hate it when things like this happen. Not out of jealousy (though that depends on the individual writers), but more that they work their asses off to become good writers and struggle for every meager semblence of success and then someone who can't even write comes along and is suddenly making millions because they wrote crap that everyone happens to like. *

*Pak has confirmed this.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Also, you read the fourth book? In my world, "quick easy reads that were fun while they lasted" does not connect with "boy gives his girlfriend a c-section with his TEETH."

Violent things happen in books and movies all the time.  It is up to the person who is reading them to read them comprehensively. I found them a fun easy read.   I'm not defending them to the death or anything, I'm just saying that it isn't the book's fault that people are turning it into a psychotic frenzy.  I've read and seen things that include far more unsavory depictions of relationships and life, but in no way do I begin believing that the author is personally telling me how to live my life. 

Obviously the girls who are committing these acts (the ones that are true) really need help and I feel sorry that they are so open to imaginary suggestions.  But, the problem goes deeper than "they just read Twilight and flipped their wig."  These issues existed beforehand and simply blaming a book for their mental instability is an easy cop-out.

Also, the fourth book, should not represent the entire series. 
[/quote]

Oh, I wasn't trying to connect the dental c-section with the alleged Twilight-fan violence. I was just saying that it kind of contrasts with your statement that

I've read all 4 Twilight books and enjoyed them thoroughly for what they were: quick, easy reads that did not require much thought but were [/b]fun while they lasted

. x_X Maybe this is a lack of understanding towards the Youth of America Today on my part, but I don't think that getting my belly ripped open by a lover is very fun. (Getting my legs gnawed off and eaten, however, is another story )

[TheUnabeefer]

and to simul-post:

Hmmm, I guess I only have a couple more weeks for this.......... so here we go.

OMFG!!! I saw New Moon, and it was NOTHING like the book!!! They totally ruined my favourite book EVR!!! Me and my BFF went n saw it, I've totally seen it like nine million HUNDRED times and I looooove how they captured the tension b-tween Bella and Jacob (Team Jacob 4evr!!!) But they totally ruined the story. I hate what they've done with my favourite. I m their biggest fan!!! I have EVRYTHING Twilight. OMG Edward is SO dreamy but I SO want Bella to get with Jacob. He's tha gr8test!!!

HOW DARE YOU RUIN MY BEST FAVOURITE BOOK SERIES MOVIES EVR!!!!

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

But yeah. I think real writers probably really, really, really hate it when things like this happen.

Yes, we do.

[Sharktopus]

I have a very intelligent friend (age 28) and she's read all four books.

Yeah I have a friend who is very clever and cool and still likes them.

If I didn't find her so very cute and cool and generally awesome* I'd rib her a lot more about it but she also knows they're utter crap.

*I tend to lose some of my eloquence when I think about her, she is that cool.

o/` Tripe has a crush. Tripe has a crush. o/` You should push her on the playground then run off giggling.

[TheUnabeefer]

I have a very intelligent friend (age 28) and she's read all four books.

Yeah I have a friend who is very clever and cool and still likes them.

If I didn't find her so very cute and cool and generally awesome* I'd rib her a lot more about it but she also knows they're utter crap.

*I tend to lose some of my eloquence when I think about her, she is that cool.

o/` Tripe has a crush. Tripe has a crush. o/` You should push her on the playground then run off giggling.

Does she have a little sister?!

[Tripe]

o/` Tripe has a crush. Tripe has a crush. o/` You should push her on the playground then run off giggling.

DO NOT!!!!  *holds breath till the dinner ladies tell me to cut that out*

Does she have a little sister?!

No, she does have two older brothers if that's a good fit for your new 2010 persona

[TheUnabeefer]

No, unfortunately....  drat.

[Doctor Who?]

I think I'm a reasonably sensible person, and I've read all 4 Twilight books and enjoyed them thoroughly for what they were: quick, easy reads that did not require much thought but were fun while they lasted.  The first movie is downright horrible, thanks especially to two lead actors who have zero chemistry and tremendous lolls in dialogue that I guess were supposed to create dramatic tension or something....I don't know.  The Rifftrax of Twilight are one of my favorite Riffs, (especially the part where Bill sings along with the Edward playing the piano.)  The second movie, however, is reasonably better.  I'm not saying it's a cinematic masterpiece, but it tries to have some action, faster plot development, and more focus on the Jacob character (the only character in the entire series who is genuinely likable and somewhat developed).

I do worry what girls in the tween age range are gleaning from their obsession with Twilight.  It's no different, though, than what I grew up with which were animated Disney princesses.  Most are the same as the Bella character (if not significantly more cheerful): hollow headed empty vessels that must have an equally personality devoid male to complete their lives.  However, while growing up and watching these characters and pretending to be them etc., I did not grow up to think that if a man kidnapped me and locked me in a tower that it must be his psycho way of saying he loved me.  Hopefully these girls will be able to understand that Edward and Bella's relationship is simply a work of fiction.  

The saddest part is that the whole Twilight thing exists solely into capturing a ripe gender and age group to turn them into compulsive consumers who will buy any crap with a Twilight logo on it.  The other day I was in Border's Books and I saw Twilight Brand Packaging Tape.  It was like ten bucks.  Who the fuck needs Twilight Brand Packaging Tape?  It has truly gotten out of hand.  But it joins Hannah Montana, High School Musical, the Jonas Brothers, etc. in a marketing machine to take little girl's and parent's money straight out of their pockets.  THAT'S the saddest part to me is that they are being led straight into a lifestyle of blind consumption.  

I think we would have fewer of these fads if more parents instead of just buying their kids whatever they want when they want it did what my parents did when i was a kid.  I had to work doing choice and jobs for people to earn every cent of spending money i ever got.  You what? I didn't get into all the fads my friends did.  i didn't buy Pokemon cards just because they were popular.  i have never had any trouble waiting a year for a video game to come down to $10-$20,and I make sure that i really like something before buying it.  Most of the movies,books,games,that i got as a kid i still own because i wasn't about to spend my hard earned money on something just because everyone was buying it.

If kids today had to earn their spending money i don't think they would be buying over priced packing tape with a logo on it.

[LucasM]

But yeah. I think real writers probably really, really, really hate it when things like this happen.

Yes, we do.

I'll confirm that too.  And like Tyrant said, not because of jealousy, but because of the effort we put in.  But also - for me - because it reduces the standards that people subsequently require in their reading, and well-crafted writing will (further) fall by the wayside.  If anyone can slap some shit on a piece of paper (referring to word use, not content, here) and people will pay for it, there will be more of that 'writing'... and actual, good writing will get lost: as diamonds in the garbage.

I am currently writing a short novel for roughly the same target age group.  [Very different content.]  I have such regard for the English language, that I spend a fair amount of time writing and editing even e-mails I send, and posts I put up online (like this: I've run through this 4-5 times editing so that it hopefully expresses exactly what I intended, and does so smoothly).  That's for a couple reasons.  One, is head-injury related (I need to make sure that what I think I'm saying is what actually ends up onscreen), but the other is because it allows me even a few sentences/paragraphs more 'practice' writing so that what I write - that I hope one day to get paid for - is the best it can be, and is the most evocative it can be.


Oh... and . . .

Yeah I have a friend who is very clever and cool and still likes them.

If I didn't find her so very cute and cool and generally awesome* I'd rib her a lot more about it but she also knows they're utter crap.

*I tend to lose some of my eloquence when I think about her, she is that cool.  

"TripeHoundRedux has a girlfriend... TripeHoundRedux has a girlfriend... " 

But seriously.  Yeah, the cool things about the friend I have 'outweighs' anything negative I could think about that could possibly be there with the books.  I'm sure there are things that I like that she (and others) would find questionable, too.

Oh, well.  It happens.


Of course, by all that, I think we are 'proving the point' of what we all are finding distressing with the reports about 'Twihards' and the 'anti-'s.  We are thinking rationally about this.  They aren't.  But there is a very good reason for that.

Dr. Daniel Amen is a well-respected Psychiatrist who uses cutting-edge brain imaging to see into the way the mind works  http://www.amenclinics.com/.  He found that teenagers brains are actually hyperactive and hyperreactive in areas related to emotion, so they react in extremes (any parents of teens reading that see something familiar?) and they often cannot control their responses because - effectively - their brain won't let them.  So when they get 'overinvolved' emotionally with something like Twilight (or anything else, it's not vampire-love specific  ) their ability to determine what is a 'reasonable' response disappears.

[It also makes it so that their ability to determine what is 'reasonable' writing also disappears...    ...because they are too caught up in the emotion from the content to notice it.]